Wall Penatration

[Derbel McDillet]

Thru ribs and a roast - convinced me.

The birdshot penetrated like, what, 4 inches total? That's inadequate. That kind of penetration performance will barely perforate an arm. That kind of penetration performance won't reach vitals deep in the torso - thus you end up with a shallow and ugly looking but ineffective wound that won't quickly compel a determined attacker to stop.

 

[2506]

Looky what I found:


The 65 pound gelatin block rose up to about a 45-degree angle immediately after firing.

==========
Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

Test # Bird 1
Bare gelatin block
(Nominal 10% concentration)

Cartridge : 12 gauge Winchester Super Speed Xtra 7 1/2 shot, 2 3/4 inches, 1 ounce

Block Calibration : 3.3 ± 0.05 inch penetration @ 597 ± 0.5 ft/sec

Block Calibration temperature : 36.1 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Block Core temperature : 37.9 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Bullet Performance:

Impact Velocity : 1317 ± 0.5 feet/second
Deepest Penetration Depth : 5.9 ± 0.05 Inch
Maximum Crack Diameter : 4.5 ± 0.05 Inch
Max Crack Diameter Location : 2.3 ± 0.05 Inch
Cavitation Depth : 0.0-5.9 ± 0.05 Inch

Notes:
Weapon - New England Firearms Pardner, with 24.0" barrel and cylinder choke.

Distance - 10.0 feet, muzzle to gelatin impact face

Test site conditions - 67 deg F, 46% relative humidity

Time out of refrigeration prior to shot impact - 6 minutes

Bullet recovered weight - All shot pellets and wadding recovered

Bullet recovered average diameter - 0.090 ± 0.0005"

Bullet recovered length - Not applicable.

Shot pattern was 3.8" in diameter on the impact face of the gelatin block.

<broken link removed> 1 Side View.JPG
<broken link removed> 1 Top View.JPG
<broken link removed> 1 Bullet View.JPG

 

[Fast Eddie]

I pray to God, I never have to ever shoot another human being ever. If I do, I hope they can be stopped and survive it.

So...I'm leaning toward a couple loads of birdshot, and getting heavier with the loads after that. Though It could potentially leave me out gunned by an armed intruder or intruders. I'm thinking that a good segment of bad guys that would enter my home uninvited, will turn and run at the sight of the shotgun. One or two shots of bird shot would bring most intruders to a point of cowardice. Reserving the heavier loads doesn't leave you completely defenseless, and not shooting the kids or the neighbors is as much a priority as stopping the bad guy.

I realize it's a compromise, but if we gravitate too far to the opposite end of the discussion, it would seem reasonable to use an RPG and sleep in body armor with a respirator.

 

[cookie]

Count on pretty much all projectiles penetrating walls just to be wise.

 

[2506]

I pray to God, I never have to ever shoot another human being ever. If I do, I hope they can be stopped and survive it.

No you don't. You want them DRT. Otherwise you're going to lose everything own, and most likely everything you ever will own in a lawsuit.

 

[1stklass]

The birdshot penetrated like, what, 4 inches total? That's inadequate. That kind of penetration performance will barely perforate an arm. That kind of penetration performance won't reach vitals deep in the torso - thus you end up with a shallow and ugly looking but ineffective wound that won't quickly compel a determined attacker to stop.[/


that shot would have caved in my ribs and turned my heart into hamburger... you must have some pretty impressive fatty man boobs to say that wouldn't reach your vitals lol

 

[Certaindeaf]

I read accounts of #4 buck failing to even penetrate the skin.. zipped leather jackets "hanging" away from the body etc.. I'm sure distance had something to do with it but if memory serves they were full pattern hits, not point blank or a stray pellet.
If a shotgun is involved, I'll use 00 or slugs, just like the professionals.

 

[Derbel McDillet]

that shot would have caved in my ribs and turned my heart into hamburger... you must have some pretty impressive fatty man boobs to say that wouldn't reach your vitals lol

You apparently expect a full frontal target without the arms being in the way of your shot. You may or may not be presented with this particular targeting opportunity. This is called uncertainty. The more uncertainty you remove the better. You don't get to choose the circumstances. You just get to react.

The fight will NOT be the way you want it to be. The fight will be the way it is. You must be flexible enough to adapt.

 

[tacticalgunner]

Cool part is, I have at least five round to pump at bad guy. I like my family to much to have them as hit in the fight. If you can walk or get up after being hit with bird shot within 15 feet or less, I have a bigger issue on my hands. Not willing to take my own families life while trying to save them. IMHO

 

[Certaindeaf]

Cool part is, I have at least five round to pump at bad guy. I like my family to much to have them as hit in the fight. If you can walk or get up after being hit with bird shot within 15 feet or less, I have a bigger issue on my hands. Not willing to take my own families life while trying to save them. IMHO

The uncool part is, you don't need to walk or get up to kill you and your whole family. There's these things called guns these days, see.
The fella might say "ow" before butchering you all though.. good plan.

 

[tacticalgunner]

The uncool part is, you don't need to walk or get up to kill you and your whole family. There's these things called guns these days, see.
The fella might say "ow" before butchering you all though.. good plan.

I don't understand...

 

[Certaindeaf]

That's fine.

 

[clearconscience]

In my house i'm really only concerned with one type on penetration.

And it really doesn't have anything to do with ammunition.
If penetration was so an important problem law enforcement wouldn't be carrying .40 cals or ARs and kicking in doors.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Cool part is, I have at least five round to pump at bad guy. I like my family to much to have them as hit in the fight. If you can walk or get up after being hit with bird shot within 15 feet or less, I have a bigger issue on my hands. Not willing to take my own families life while trying to save them. IMHO

HUH?

 

[tacticalgunner]

HUH?

Huh what? Just my opinion, you have yours. So I guess the question is, who wants to stand in front of my 12 gauge and let me shot at them.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Huh what? Just my opinion, you have yours. So I guess the question is, who wants to stand in front of my 12 gauge and let me shot at them.

Who said you get to shoot first? You sure assume a lot. Oh and also, there's these things called walls.. you assume someone to stand there, probably after you loudly rack that quail gun, and let you shoot them. Most things are a two edged sword.. being handicapped with birdshot is more like overcooked macaroni.. I'll take the sword.

 

[tacticalgunner]

Who said you get to shoot first? You sure assume a lot. Oh and also, there's these things called walls.. you assume someone to stand there, probably after you loudly rack that quail gun, and let you shoot them. Most things are a two edged sword.. being handicapped with birdshot is more like overcooked macaroni.. I'll take the sword.

Agree to disagree on this one, but that's the beauty of a forum. All in all, none of our conversations matter. We are going to use and do what we want everything is going to be fine. I most in likely would not pull my shotty out at first anyways. Have a good weekend all

 

[Mike Honcho]

You apparently expect a full frontal target without the arms being in the way of your shot. You may or may not be presented with this particular targeting opportunity. This is called uncertainty. The more uncertainty you remove the better. You don't get to choose the circumstances. You just get to react.

The fight will NOT be the way you want it to be. The fight will be the way it is. You must be flexible enough to adapt.

+1,

I choose my ammunition on the worst set of possible circumstances not the best. Murphy really has a way of creeping up at the most inopportune times.

As far as shooting in the house, training, practice, technique and different tools will be far more effective in putting rounds on target than throwing bird shot down the bore with a false sense of security of "over penetration."