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Just one more thought. Shoot it at 600 at TCGC. You do not have to be a member. The new e-target system actually measures velocity at the target. The velocity measurement may not be the most acurate but with 20 shots fired you would get another ES measurement to campare to yours plus see how it groups. Just hope for little wind. They shoot most every Tues night.
 
6-13-19 Update

Tried same load. Used CCI BR small rifle primers in place of Federal 205M in original load.
Velocities were (In order of shots fired):
1-2936 fps
2-2957 fps
3-2928 fps
4-2948 fps
5-2952 fps
6-2966 fps
7-2960 fps
8-2917 fps
9-2954 fps
10-2958 fps

The good news is, there is an improvement over the older lot of primers. 49fps extreme spread.

The bad news (In my eyes) is, E.S. is still bigger than I am looking for. I need to take a hard look at my practices, and evaluate each step. There's some wiggle room in there somewhere.

Have not found Federal 205M at any of the 4 stores I looked at. Seem to be in short supply right now. Will try newer lot once I find em.

Two things to contemplate.
1- If your just going to shoot 500 yards or less chasing god like ES/SD is just plain silly.

Develop an accurate load and enjoy.

2- if your developing a load for long range then ES/SD does matter but to me it's just some information.
The reality is what the bullet/load actually does at distance is what counts.

I believe the bullet far more than the chronograph.
 
This is first foray into dial scopes, long (By my standards) range, and all the pieces of the puzzle to get there from here.

We are at 500 yards now. So long as the wind plays nice, that's simple enough (And where we have been shooting, the wind can be less than kind. But that's another story that is gonna be trial and error process on our part).

Extending range steadily, as we figure out the basics. The long term plan is to work out as far as we can. If that's 1000 or 2000 or 100,000 yards, so be it (Yeah I know a 223 has a limited range. Once we hit that wall, and are looking for more, we will step up to equipment better suited to the task. In the mean time, the 223 is the crash test dummy, and I'm driving.

Ordering more plates this week. Plan is to set several plates at different ranges/angles.
 
Flatfish, I share your pain. I just started shooting long range at Tricounty and in an effort to shrink my groups I have been exploring combinations to find the smallest velocity spread. You have covered most of the items. Maybe neck tension and seating depth? Have you found a node where powder variance is minimized and shots have the same elevation? Ladder testing can help with finding that. If you come across a solution, please share.

For me, I'm looking at a new chronograph now because I don't have confidence in my Caldwell chronograph. Considering the 2 box chronograph with claimed accuracy that is hard to beat.
 
During load development, no powder charge weights showed any smaller deviations than others. Sloppy across the board.

They showed less velocity gain per grain of powder. But extreme spread has been mediocre from the get go in this rifle. Accuracy is good (So long as bullet is seated close to lands).

My old hand primer died yesterday. Looking at options now. Every change in life is an opportunity. Might shave off a few fps in the process. Lurking on benchrest sites, as those folks know how to make fine ammo.

I think some powders are a little more user friendly in some instances (H4350 in Creedmoor for example) to good results. Not speculating why. Just think they do... for whatever internal ballistic reason.
 
I just checked the data on your load. It indicates your load might be compressed. How much room is in the case after you fill it with 25.1 gr of Varget? Hear the sound of "cornflakes" as you seat your bullet? There's a variable that can affect pressure. Case volume can be finicky and be the cause of varying pressure with all other variables the same. The other powder with a 2900ish max velocity is H4895. The other popular 223 powders from Hodgdon show lower max velocities. I didn't check Alliant or VV powders.

Bummer about your hand primer, that's almost as bad as losing your dog. My Lee and RCBS are both about 20 years old and I'm rather attached.
 
The reality is what the bullet/load actually does at distance is what counts.

This is very true.

Velocity spread does not closely correlate to accuracy. There is too many other major factors at play. How the whole system (shooter, rifle and load) works together is what the paper at distance shows you. People tend to spend too much time on the load.
 
No compression. Aftermarket mags allow long bullet seating. Chamber requires it, as throat is silly long, and rifle shoots best when bullet is seated near lands. Long jump to rifling made poor accuracy.

At mid range (500 yards) no mystery misses. But there's the occasional flyer that's vertical out of the rest of the group.

The plan is to extend to 700-1000 yards this summer. At those ranges, the flyer at 500 will become a miss.

Until this long range bug bit me, I would never have cared. Groups are solid at short range. But we are asking more.
 
this is interesting. i agree with most if you are shooting .25 with a factory rifle i wouldn't care what the ES is.
1. How are ya measuring your rounds? COAL or with a comparator at the ogive? Are seating depths consistent?

could be the barrel. rapid fire strings are no friend to barrels and it might not like it.

I have a Labradar but i am not stateside at the time.
 
I get that working on it right now is looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Problem is, my OCD wont let go of it. It kills me to think I could blame a miss (On a steel plate. Not some once in a lifetime big game deal) on ammo that is less than perfect. If I do miss, I want it to be with my best foot forward. The only excuse that's acceptable is "It's my fault".

Fumbling around with perfectly acceptable ammo has been a hobby of mine for 30 years.
 
6-13-19 Update

Tried same load. Used CCI BR small rifle primers in place of Federal 205M in original load.
Velocities were (In order of shots fired):
1-2936 fps
2-2957 fps
3-2928 fps
4-2948 fps
5-2952 fps
6-2966 fps
7-2960 fps
8-2917 fps
9-2954 fps
10-2958 fps

The good news is, there is an improvement over the older lot of primers. 49fps extreme spread.

The bad news (In my eyes) is, E.S. is still bigger than I am looking for. I need to take a hard look at my practices, and evaluate each step. There's some wiggle room in there somewhere.

Have not found Federal 205M at any of the 4 stores I looked at. Seem to be in short supply right now. Will try newer lot once I find em.

Barrel heat and fouling, plus powder weight fluctuations can easily cause ES to be in this range with the .223. Looks like the newer primers are helping. I use a lot of the BR4's and get good ES with them, as they are extremely consistent in ignition. I'm also wondering if you have measured your flash holes and how's the neck tension? There is so much that can affect velocity, that it will make your head spin.....

In such a small case, I would also expect a smaller ES. In most of my big game rifles with bigger cases, I generally have no more than 40-50 fps es... Such as in my 338wm:
lAQNcQj.jpg

This is a magnum case that consumes over 70 grains of powder, so in all reality, your ES should be less than 20 fps. I can see and understand your concern... One thing I'd try is another powder. Try dropping from a good powder measure that drops very consistently. One of the reasons I don't use Varget in a .223 case, its just too bulky... If I was forced to weigh every charge for my .223's, I wouldn't load for them... Its just that simple. Also, there's a lot of talk about 3 shot groups. To me, they are absolutely worthless. Shoot some 10-20 shot strings and see where your accuracy is. I'll shoot a 3 shot group on occasion to see where my initial poi is sometimes when shooting longer distances, especially when i'm at a different range and elevation. Did it the other day with 2 of my creeds when I was in the high desert @5,300 ft abv sea level. Furthermore, The OP sounds like he's got his accuracy fine tuned, how much more do you really need? "1/2" groups at 200 yards", according to the OP. From a factory rifle? Count your blessings man...
 
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No compression. Aftermarket mags allow long bullet seating. Chamber requires it, as throat is silly long, and rifle shoots best when bullet is seated near lands. Long jump to rifling made poor accuracy.

At mid range (500 yards) no mystery misses. But there's the occasional flyer that's vertical out of the rest of the group.

The plan is to extend to 700-1000 yards this summer. At those ranges, the flyer at 500 will become a miss.

Until this long range bug bit me, I would never have cared. Groups are solid at short range. But we are asking more.

You hit that nail on the head. You ARE asking too much from that little bullet. The low BC's are going to be your greatest downfall at longrange. Personally, I'd step up to a 6mm or 6.5. Not going to suggest creed, but that's probably the direction I'd head.
 

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