Looking for Help With Custom Die Instructions

[kmk1012]

I bought an older custom rifle in a wildcat chambering. It came with everything to load but I'm not familiar with these dies. They are built by Neil Jones Precision. I believe I need to use an arbor press as there aren't any outside threads. I had been following this rifle around local gun shows for several years but one time it caught my eye. When I saw what the package deal included I bought it. Three years later, I finally have time to shoot the thing but being a wildcat cartridge I need to learn these dies. It came with a lot of brass, parent case is the 221 REM Fireball but brass can and has been converted from 223/556. It came with lots of targets showing the accuracy, looks like a .25MOA or better rifle. The rifle has a Canjar trigger as well, found out these are about as good as one can for a Remington action. Ok, story out of the way, question is-how do I use this die set? The bullet seating die I have figured out but the sizing die has left me scratching my head. Here's some pics of them and a fired case next to a factory Fireball case. Any help here is greatly appreciated!

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[Local Loader]

Looks like a neck size die only and have you checked out their website? https://neiljonescustomproducts.com/

 

[kmk1012]

Looks like a neck size die only and have you checked out their website? https://neiljonescustomproducts.com/

Yes, sent email but being the weekend now I got impatient, LOL. Also, the internet has conflicting reports of whether he is even still making them or alive. I have a reamer and looking at info right now if I can use that to cut a readily available die blank. A full length and neck sizing die would be great to have. There's companies who will take some fired cases and make a die set for about $400. I can swing the $$$ but they have at least a 24 month lead on custom products.

 

[kmk1012]

Measuring the reamer and fired brass I have I'm looking at my Lyman reloading book and devising a plan with other dies from different chambering. It has the same taper and body dimensions as a 7mm TCU and some others. I'll just have to size the necks with a 22cal neck sizer I already have. It ads an extra step but I can start shooting right away.

 

[lucusloc]

That looks like a die set designed to be used on a handpress, and a big one to boot. You could probably get away with a hand pump hydraulic press from harbor freight, but that would probably double the time per round. Most of the cheaper handpress you can find online only have a 6 inch throw, and that looks closer to 8 inches. The other question is pressure. Hand presses can be pretty difficult to fully resize a case, let alone reform it. Just the neck is fine, but anything past that gets much more difficult fast. You may want to opt for a flypress if that reforms a good chunk of the case. Use lots of lube.

Edit: something like this arbor press would probably work well enough; https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-3-ton-arbor-press/t26415

 

[kmk1012]

That looks like a die set designed to be used on a handpress, and a big one to boot. You could probably get away with a hand pump hydraulic press from harbor freight, but that would probably double the time per round. Most of the cheaper handpress you can find online only have a 6 inch throw, and that looks closer to 8 inches. The other question is pressure. Hand presses can be pretty difficult to fully resize a case, let alone reform it. Just the neck is fine, but anything past that gets much more difficult fast. You may want to opt for a flypress if that reforms a good chunk of the case. Use lots of lube.

Edit: something like this arbor press would probably work well enough; https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-3-ton-arbor-press/t26415

After looking at a lot of options I may just get a die set from another cartridge that matches the diameter and body taper (7mm TCU fits the bill) and size body and neck separately. It'll work until I decide to fork over $400-$500 for a set of custom dies.

 

[bcp]

Benchrest-style arbor presses-some links:

Harrells Precision Arbor Press

The highest quality, most innovative reloading tools and shooting supplies for precision riflemen. Unparalleled customer service. Shop Now - PMA Tool

www.pmatool.com

Arbor Press | K+M's Precision Reloading Best Arbor Press

Arbor Press | K+M's Precision Reloading Best Arbor Press used w/ inline bullet seating and neck sizing dies for a home loading bench or out at the range.

kmshooting.com

Reloading Presses & More | L.E. Wilson Inc.

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Just to try out your dies, use a pipe clamp or a drill press.






Bruce

 

[P7M13]

@nolan
@flashpan
Both varminting wizards, whom I suspect might be able to help you.

 

[flashpan]

Kmk
Sounds like my kinda rifle and project.
First off, do you know the name of the wildcat? Hard to tell from pictures but it looks like a 221FB AI (Ackley Improved)
40 degree shoulder?
And sounds like you are figuring out how to get some first loads using fired brass and neck sizing.

 

[kmk1012]

Kmk
Sounds like my kinda rifle and project.
First off, do you know the name of the wildcat? Hard to tell from pictures but it looks like a 221FB AI (Ackley Improved)
40 degree shoulder?
And sounds like you are figuring out how to get some first loads using fired brass and neck sizing.

The wildcat is called the 221-45 Cheetah Cub. I've been studying every wildcat cartridge based on the 223 and 221FB cases. This appears to be almost exactly the 22 VarTarg in every aspect. This gun predates the invention of that cartridge so pretty neat to see. I'm looking into other dies to use on this as custom dies will take a very long time to make. For the body a 7mm TCU will work great and the shoulder and neck I think I can use the chamber reamer to modify a 221 FB die. I've had this gun for several years but been off work for a couple months recovering and finally getting around to playing with my toys. This would make a perfect long range sage rat gun from my portable bench.

 

[flashpan]

Very cool
I shoot a 20VT and use a bushing die for sizing. Of course the VT has a 30 degree shoulder. You're welcome to try it...and I have several 22 bushings to try.
Have you tried using the die that came with by simply using a mallet? Just thinking out loud.

 

[kmk1012]

I'm hesitant to use a hammer on a precision instrument. I'm sure I could figure it out but I'm trying to be lazy, LOL. If I don't succeed I might mail you a couple cases to size to test out, thank you!

 

[flashpan]

Also...FYI
With the reamer you own you can have a competent riflesmith make a die using these excellent die blanks
Enjoy

 

[kmk1012]

Also...FYI
With the reamer you own you can have a competent riflesmith make a die using these excellent die blanks
Enjoy

View attachment 2172908

Yes sir, I have one in the cart but not sure my chamber reamer will give me the specs I need.

 

[kmk1012]

Ended up just neck sizing a few rounds to test at the range. Found out the gun likes them seated long. I shot the best group of my life with the bullets that were seated the longest. Center to center on this five shot group was right at .155"!!!!! Yeah yeah it was only 50 yards but you do the math for 100 yards. The Canjar set trigger was a dream, I've never shot with a set trigger.

 

[kmk1012]

So, I'm getting the hang of these inline dies. Once I picked up an arbor press it made more sense. I've loaded close to 100 rounds developing some loads to hone in on. My best so far at 50 yards off of a bench measures .125" center to center. This is with a five shot group, not a three shot group all you cheaters are using . I'm hoping the weather holds out tomorrow so I can stretch it a bit further. I've been really impressed with this custom cartridge rifle I recently starting shooting. Some old timer sure did love this thing and spent a ton of time and $$$ developing this cartridge based on the 221 Fireball.