universal background checks alternative...

[Diamondback]

I actually would in the case that it was free, and they would actually punish criminals, and get rid of class 3 restrictions as well as passing a universal 50 state carry permit.
And no high cap mag restrictions

Also preempt local/state Ugly Gun Bans, too. Then MAYBE I'd be on board. Two separate, one-time database queries: Prohibited Persons, and Reported Stolen Guns, no data retained unless buyer is a Prohibited Person or gun is Reported Stolen.

 

[Member 5605]

The list should be ran to see if a person was/is on it.

If you are not on the list of prohibited persons, hand you the firearm and walk away.

 

[EPS]

Pussy--make it a nuked-up B-52. lol

I'm thinking APPACHE won't need the long runway for landing and take off

 

[CLT65]

I don't believe a UBC will impact crime, because only the law abiding will follow the law. It's clear what they are really after is universal registration.

That said, a background check system that would be more palatable would be a simpler check as has been mentioned (no de-facto registration), as well as a simple shift of legal responsibility for a seller.

What I mean by a shift of responsibility is this: in free states (and previously here) a person was legal to sell a firearm to a buyer so long as you didn't have reason to believe they were a prohibited person (underage, felon, non-resident, etc.). If it could be shown that you knew or had reason to believe that you sold a gun to a prohibited person, you were in trouble.

The shift would be that one would need to be able to show, if need be, that you had reason to believe that the buyer was not a prohibited person (CHL, family, long-time friend or associate, or BGC). This would simplify matters for the good guys while providing the same level of restriction for a prohibited person as the law we have now.

No I'm not necessarily in favor of it, but it would have been a lot more palatable and every bit as effective. Then again we all know it's not really about a background check, is it?

 

[Diamondback]

I'm thinking APPACHE won't need the long runway for landing and take off

True, but the point is the principle--if the Founders not only allowed but encouraged private ownership of the 1770s version of the ICBM...

For practicality, I'd personally rather have either a TA-4 Skyhawk (two-seater model), or an EA-6B Prowler as a "family truckster". Scooter can carry 800# baggage or 300gal. fuel on each wing, plus the centerline; Prowler, I'm not sure about where all it could carry baggage pods but I'd bet the real limit on it is number of hardpoints and their store ratings--the tonnage is there, it's just "can it be used."

 

[Heyjoe]

How about an ac-130? Fit the family AND two howitzers.

One of them and a warthog/thunderbolt would be great!

 

[Caveman Jim]

The only solution to save humanity and freedom in such a scheme is a massive EMP taking us back to precomputer era. Tall order. Sometimes I really wish I'd been born about 40 years sooner...

I'm all for it!!! Its way past time to get back to the basics and enjoy the solitude we knew in another time 30 years ago.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Ummmmm............................ No.

Make it free, make it instant, no paperwork, one simple phone call/internet search made by the seller with no govt involvement and I might consider supporting it.

On the other hand, if those "prohibited persons" (known to be dangerous..?) weren't out on the street among the law abiding, then we wouldn't need such a system, would we?


Ray

BINGO!!!!!

If TPTB are not trying to actually fix the real cause (criminals & the mentally ill) then I give NO shlts for their ideas to further restrict the law abiding!!!

 

[CountryGent]

No, I don't. The notion that UBCs is a good idea is based upon four faulty assumptions:

1. That an inanimate object, that is legally owned by a law-abiding citizen, and protected by the Bill of Rights, must receive approval from the government to exchange said property somehow isn't an infringement. It pretty obviously is.
   
2. That they work. Glaring holes have been exposed in the data being submitted to NICS in recent years. A lot of bad guys don't obtain their guns by legal means to begin with. And the rate of those successfully prosecuted for failing a background check is a few dozen most years—there were only 44 in 2013, for example, which is a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions of checks performed.
3. That it won't be abused. It does not take much imagination for something like this to turn in further infringement, or worse, into a national registration. We currently do have a limited firearms registration (NFA) and the process is a complete dumpster fire. And that is putting it charitably.
4. That the efficiency of the firearms transfer process wouldn't be degraded. I'm sure many recall the wait times on "instant" background checks a few years ago. It stands to reason that the process would get worse.

Yah, no thanks.

 

[TM-Salem]

The UBC is a money making scheme for the gooberment, if it wasnt then we would have access to it for private party sales.

 

[Koda]

most of the replies so far have been a solid no to any kind of background check system, a couple seemed neutral and a couple seemed like they could possibly support it. There is also an interesting side discussion about owning fighter jets, which, like tanks... are actually legal to own and buy.

Personally, I could support such legislation if there was no registration scheme attached considering our current system of letting violent offenders on the streets. I would change my mind to a solid no if there was a way to keep all violent offenders behind bars, is that realistic or possible? At what point should someone convicted of a violent offense allowed to be free? What level of violence defines who stays in jail for life?

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Interesting thought. No scheme is tough to beat. Privately if we could keep personal bills of sale that met legal requirement but no requierment for submission of said sales.. for the transfer of property from one individual to another and the ability to call it in ourselves, at no cost.. yeah.. maybe.

Doubt we can ever skirt a BGC with zero cost.

 

[Tony617]

I think that eventually AI will be implemented to keep an overall "citizen score" on everybody. This will consist of driving records, criminal history, credit scores, social media, browsing history, and other traceable factors. There will be only one ID needed for anything and everything, even concealed carry. It's coming folks. This will be the scene within 5-10 years. All systems will be tied in to AI at some point. Your access to many things will depend on your worthiness according to your citizen score.

I just can help but think of the "Number of the Beast" for some reason:

Number of the Beast - Wikipedia

 

[Koda]

Interesting thought. No scheme is tough to beat. Privately if we could keep personal bills of sale that met legal requirement but no requierment for submission of said sales.. for the transfer of property from one individual to another and the ability to call it in ourselves, at no cost.. yeah.. maybe.

Doubt we can ever skirt a BGC with zero cost.

currently in Oregon anyone can request a background check for $10.
We could have a system where we make it the buyers responsibility to prove he is not a prohibited person, he pays the $10 for his own background check and is issued a certificate with a unique number the seller can keep with the bill or sale or call to validate the number... if he even wanted to. The cert could be valid for only a certain amount of time and for only 1 firearm with the onus of that on the buyer. Not a perfect system but a bonus is that now the used value of the gun would come back.

 

[L84Cabo]

Im wondering how many gun rights supporters would support universal background checks (UBCs) on all gun sales (new or used) if there was no registration scheme included in the process?


Im not certain yet how such a system would work, or even if its possible, but for the sake of this dicussiin lets say that for all firearm transfers the make, model and serial number would not be included anywhere in the background check process, the 4473 would still be used, the call would be made and upon approval the gun would be transferred.

Thoughts?

I will say this as plainly and simply as I can... NOT ONE MORE DAMN INCH!

I'm done compromising. I'm done even trying to have a rational conversation about this with anti-gunners...because there is no rational dialog to be had. And that's because they don't want "common sense gun control." What they want is the total and complete elimination of ALL guns through the incremental elimination of our rights, one by one, piece by piece, until they have everything.

This notion of yours, "...if there was no registration scheme included in the process," is straight up comedy. And what exactly would be the assurance of that? A bunch of lying corrupt liberal politicians promising that registration isn't part of the deal? If you would believe that I've got a great deal on a bridge for you.

It's not part of the deal right up until it is. Because you see, "the background checks just haven't quite worked as well as we thought they would so now we're going to need you to register the guns because think of the children you damn Republican baby killers!"

NOT ONE MORE DAMN INCH!

 

[Diamondback]

I will say this as plainly and simply as I can... NOT ONE MORE DAMN INCH!

I'm done compromising. I'm done even trying to have a rational conversation about this with anti-gunners...because there is no rational dialog to be had. And that's because they don't want "common sense gun control." What they want is the total and complete elimination of ALL guns through the incremental elimination of our rights, one by one, piece by piece, until they have everything.

This notion of yours, "...if there was no registration scheme included in the process," is straight up comedy. And what exactly would be the assurance of that? A bunch of lying corrupt liberal politicians promising that registration isn't part of the deal? If you would believe that I've got a great deal on a bridge for you.

It's not part of the deal right up until it is. Because you see, "the background checks just haven't quite worked as well as we thought they would so now we're going to need you to register the guns because think of the children you damn Republican baby killers!"

NOT ONE MORE DAMN INCH!

Amigo, you sound a lot like old boardmate LawDog...
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-repost.html

 

[Flymph]

Just make a code on people's ID and some symbol that indicates firearm ownership eligibility on the back. Law enforcement would then destroy/confiscate any ID when a person becomes ineligible.
Require FFL's to scan ID's and all private sales to happen where an ID can be scanned and verified.

It's not flawless, and FFL's will likely charge for the service... perhaps set a law that requires FFL's charge no more than X amount for scanning a license... or leave it up to the market and choose the establishments with the best price for the service.

Still not perfect...

I like the idea of keeping ineligible people confined and more heavily regulated/restricted better, but that's too costly and even less likely to happen as it seems.

 

[Diamondback]

Just make a code on people's ID and some symbol that indicates firearm ownership eligibility on the back. Law enforcement would then destroy/confiscate any ID when a person becomes ineligible.
Require FFL's to scan ID's and all private sales to happen where an ID can be scanned and verified.

Simple... just use a red background on the ID. Red Card = No Gun For You.

Cue butthurt Leftist squawking about how distinctive ID's discriminate against felons...

 

[Caveman Jim]

I will say this as plainly and simply as I can... NOT ONE MORE DAMN INCH!

I'm done compromising. I'm done even trying to have a rational conversation about this with anti-gunners...because there is no rational dialog to be had. And that's because they don't want "common sense gun control." What they want is the total and complete elimination of ALL guns through the incremental elimination of our rights, one by one, piece by piece, until they have everything.

This notion of yours, "...if there was no registration scheme included in the process," is straight up comedy. And what exactly would be the assurance of that? A bunch of lying corrupt liberal politicians promising that registration isn't part of the deal? If you would believe that I've got a great deal on a bridge for you.

It's not part of the deal right up until it is. Because you see, "the background checks just haven't quite worked as well as we thought they would so now we're going to need you to register the guns because think of the children you damn Republican baby killers!"

NOT ONE MORE DAMN INCH!

Exactly, like the liberal progressive drillers of Washington decry thst there is no pistol registry in the state!!!!! Effin LIARS!!!!!

 

[Flymph]

Simple... just use a red background on the ID. Red Card = No Gun For You.

Cue butthurt Leftist squawking about how distinctive ID's discriminate against felons...

At least it seems you aren't upset by the idea!