National Unemployment Fraud = No Possession of a Firearm

[Boboclown]

I bet if someone wanted to be stupid and jump in front of me just to make a last minute exit, I could become a felon within an instant. Not difficult to become one without criminal intent.

 

[Talos32]

When the government is willing to jail people for stuff like the seafood importing thing- an overly harsh and seemingly nonsensical application of the law for a technical violation- it erodes trust and faith in the system.

There's got to be a reason why the United States has more people in prison per capita than any other country including China and Russia. Unless you believe that Americans are more criminal by nature, it has to be something wrong with the legal system itself.

Other posters have hit the nail on the head; when everything's a crime, everyone is a criminal. While real crime is always a problem, it seems like we scoop up entirely too many incidental criminals in our system.

It's frankly pretty demoralizing that the best we can hope for is that the eye of Sauron doesn't turn its to gaze on us, because a lifetime of good acts won't be worth a thing if a few government employees get a bee in their bonnet and decide to destroy you.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Bizarre exceptions can be found irrespective of subject matter whether it be incarcerated felons or the price of cigars...

Yes, defending felons is all the rage...but, not by all.

The vast majority of felons who're in prison belong there.

 

[awshoot]

They may be bizarre crimes but they actually exist, carry real penalties, and in most cases your intent is irrelevant. We aren't talking about obvious crimes like murder, rape, robbery, etc. A Crime a Day (@CrimeADay) | Twitter

And maybe it is funny to say that if you clog a toilet in a national forest you've committed a crime, but the law is there, the consequences are dire, and I can't see any reason why that should be the basis for losing your civil rights.

 

[Talos32]

Bizarre exceptions can be found irrespective of subject matter whether it be incarcerated felons or the price of cigars...

Yes, defending felons is all the rage...but, not by all.

The vast majority of felons who're in prison belong there.

So your argument is that Americans are more criminal than any other country? If Americans are incarcerated at a per capita rate that greatly exceeds all other nations (spoiler- they are), and if the majority of them belong there as you say, it follows that they must be more criminal by nature. That or our police are just fabulously more effective than any other country (but that wouldn't explain recidivism, which goes back to point one that the people here must just be more criminal by nature).

I don't believe that either of those answers, and I suspect neither do you.

 

[RicInOR]

I wouldn't like a violent felon living next door. But the type who became a felon by importing fish in plastic bags? Yeah, I'm fine with that type of convicted felon being my neighbor and owning guns.

I don't see 2 categories. Felons = Felons. That is a part of the problem.

And, what constitutes violence? On certain college campus', a MAGA hat is the same as RAPE, which is
violent in its nature.

How about a guy who steals a candy bar with a screw driver in his pocket - which the cop writes up as a "weapon" and prosecutor uses to convict, which then pushes the potential time in prison to over 366 days.?
Violent felon?


There are 2 types of violations - those which are wrong in their nature ( murder ) and those that are wrong because we say they are wrong. ( serving margarine in square pats rather than triangles - 1952 Connecticut). Maybe that is a way to differentiate felonies?


My view, is that once a person is out of the control of the system, then their rights are restored. No judge, hearing, nor filing. If they are not a person who should have the right to vote, serve on a jury, or possess a gun, then they should be still under the control of the system. That is, they may not be in a jail/prison, but would have to be tracked by someone in law enforcement--Parole officer not necessarily, could just be the local sheriff.




Examples of some Federal laws you should not break -
https://nypost.com/2019/06/18/here-are-some-of-the-goofiest-federal-laws-still-on-the-books/




You Can Get 5 Years in Prison for Selling Llama Poop, and Other Ludicrous Laws


A Crime a Day (@CrimeADay) | Twitter

 

[RicInOR]

Cause EVERYTHING should be a F*ing felony

New law makes stealing packages from doorsteps a felony in Texas, which being Texas probably means you can now shoot porch pirates on sight

 

[Alexx1401]

If anyone doubts 'felons' very often go on to perpetrate more crime once out on parole, talk to your local constabulary.

They'll verify that this is most often the case with felons.

For all the bleeding hearts out there, how many want a felon of a violent crime or con/scammer orburglary or fill in the blank, living next door?

Want em to baby sit your children?

Thought so...

Sounds great, many of them go on to commit more crimes so they should all be stripped of all rights for life. I think we should take their citizenship too, after all a lot of them are scum so go at them all. Perfect. Since a lot of crime is committed by guns we should just do away with all guns. Problem solved.

 

[GWS]

Sounds great, many of them go on to commit more crimes so they should all be stripped of all rights for life. I think we should take their citizenship too, after all a lot of them are scum so go at them all. Perfect. Since a lot of crime is committed by guns we should just do away with all guns. Problem solved.

Spoken like a true liberal, there!
Guns walking up to a store and saying "Gimme your money!"
Or is it guns using Alien mind control on people, saying"Pick me up.
Wave me around at a store and demand money."
OK I know you were being sarcastic and yes, I think there should be a bit more thought into what makes a felony. but bottom line is for the vast majority of felons, the loss of rights is appropriate. Yes, review the fish-monger and other ridiculous laws and change them. but if you commit a real felony, then take the consequences.
ps: How many people are actually in the slam on these spurious felonies?

 

[Alexx1401]

makes a felony. but bottom line is for the vast majority of felons, the loss of rights is appropriate.

I agree completely, the vast majority should set the rule for all. So all felons should have no rights for life. The vast majority of crime is gun crime, so no one should own a gun. You are correct.

 

[awshoot]

... ps: How many people are actually in the slam on these spurious felonies?

The number is greater than zero and thus it calls into question what it means to be a felon.

Wasn't it Pol Pot who said "it's better to kill 10 innocent people than let one enemy go free"? That seems to be the chorus taken up by the US in recent decades, although our rulers at present substitute "imprison" for "kill".

 

[Alexx1401]

The number is greater than zero and thus it calls into question what it means to be a felon.

Wasn't it Pol Pot who said "it's better to kill 10 innocent people than let one enemy go free"? That seems to be the chorus taken up by the US in recent decades, although our rulers at present substitute "imprison" for "kill".

Yep, an amazing number of gun owners are all in on this. Since a lot of some portion of society is in their opinion less than human, they should all be condemned. These are the same gun owners who do not believe the 2nd is a right. They think it is a privilege. Right up until some law maker does something that effects them. Then the screaming starts with them screaming "they can't do that, I have rights". They are then reminded that no they do not. They have privileges that some judge or law makers tells them they have.

 

[GWS]

I agree completely, the vast majority should set the rule for all. So all felons should have no rights for life. The vast majority of crime is gun crime, so no one should own a gun. You are correct.

Liberal logic at its best!

 

[GWS]

I agree completely, the vast majority should set the rule for all. So all felons should have no rights for life. The vast majority of crime is gun crime, so no one should own a gun. You are correct.

And your argument is failing when you use false pretenses to reach your conclusions The vast majority of crime is not gun crime and your other fallacy is extending one group, felons, to cover all groups.

Let me put it this way
When a person willfully chooses to break the law he or she must take the consequences one of which is the loss of rights. Stealing from someone, assaulting, raping, robbing or murdering someone costs you your rights.
Please note: I am not talking about the poor slobs who got time for lobsters improperly packaged. That conviction is either total BS or there's something else we don't know about and I acknowledge there are far too many cases like that and like the fellow lost in a blizzard getting busted for trespass. There needs to be some common sense that is clearly lacking in those cases. I would happily support or serve on a commission whose sole purpose would be to review antiquated laws and revoke, rescind or modify as many as possible. (Should horse theft really continue to be a hanging offense?) Make it a big commission because there are a lot of stupid laws on the books
Consider a paranoid schizophrenic I had to deal with long ago. Voices told her things UFO's and/or Terrorists were trying to kill her. They told her I was going to kill her daughter and then my boss was going to kill both of them. When the police finally interviewed her she got 5150'd and when released she moved to another town where she had family. She has not committed any crimes but is bull-goose loony. Should she have a gun?

 

[billdeserthills]

And your argument is failing when you use false pretenses to reach your conclusions The vast majority of crime is not gun crime and your other fallacy is extending one group, felons, to cover all groups.

Let me put it this way
When a person willfully chooses to break the law he or she must take the consequences one of which is the loss of rights. Stealing from someone, assaulting, raping, robbing or murdering someone costs you your rights.
Please note: I am not talking about the poor slobs who got time for lobsters improperly packaged. That conviction is either total BS or there's something else we don't know about and I acknowledge there are far too many cases like that and like the fellow lost in a blizzard getting busted for trespass. There needs to be some common sense that is clearly lacking in those cases. I would happily support or serve on a commission whose sole purpose would be to review antiquated laws and revoke, rescind or modify as many as possible. (Should horse theft really continue to be a hanging offense?) Make it a big commission because there are a lot of stupid laws on the books
Consider a paranoid schizophrenic I had to deal with long ago. Voices told her things UFO's and/or Terrorists were trying to kill her. They told her I was going to kill her daughter and then my boss was going to kill both of them. When the police finally interviewed her she got 5150'd and when released she moved to another town where she had family. She has not committed any crimes but is bull-goose loony. Should she have a gun?

America, 'the land of the free', leads the world in amounts of citizens in jail. Further it is estimated that the average citizen commits 3 (or more) crimes daily

That said the only way I'd be ok with even a temporary loss of rights would be due to the commission of a violent crime, in fact let's take a look at a very violent crime that was committed just the other day, when a cop shot two parents & their son, after he fell down at Costco Police Officer: Here's Why I Opened Fire at Costco

This police officer committed a violent crime, now who is going to see to it that he receives justice & when will that happen?

 

[GWS]

America, 'the land of the free', leads the world in amounts of citizens in jail. Further it is estimated that the average citizen commits 3 (or more) crimes daily

That said the only way I'd be ok with even a temporary loss of rights would be due to the commission of a violent crime, in fact let's take a look at a very violent crime that was committed just the other day, when a cop shot two parents & their son, after he fell down at Costco Police Officer: Here's Why I Opened Fire at Costco

This police officer committed a violent crime, now who is going to see to it that he receives justice & when will that happen?

Have you ever been jailed? How many members of this forum have been jailed?

 

[awshoot]

... When a person willfully chooses to break the law ...

Your premise if fundamentally flawed. Most of the Federal laws we're talking about, which can comrpise 100s of thousands of crimes, do not have any "intent" element. You break it, even without intending to, you are guilty. There is no "willful" element. You either imported fish in plastic or you did not. You got lost in a blizzard on your snowmobile and crossed an invisible line, or you did not. Your intent, even your intent to be lawful in the face of a criminal code so vast nobody can know it, is utterly irrelevant.

 

[Boboclown]

Then there's unconstitutional laws like the NFA.

 

[billdeserthills]

Have you ever been jailed? How many members of this forum have been jailed?

I've been arrested several to many times but I was always able to afford a decent lawyer, so I haven't ever spent more than a week or so in jail, all told--I've been in there long enough to get the bug spray & the uniform before

 

[GWS]

I've been arrested several to many times but I was always able to afford a decent lawyer, so I haven't ever spent more than a week or so in jail, all told--I've been in there long enough to get the bug spray & the uniform before

I'll let you decide whether to tell those tales or not.
Personally, I've managed to avoid being arrested/jailed so far in life. It wasn't that hard though admittedly, I may not have had as much fun as you.