Underappreciated calibers

[orygun]

.30-06 AI is to. 30-06 as .35 Brown-Whelen is to. 35 Whelen. In other words no appreciable gain. Nowdays it is hard to find something that really buys you an advantage over a factory cartridge or even rifle for that matter. To me unless it's a 350 fps gain or so, honestly, why bother?

Because I can already get a bit over 2800 fps with a 180 gr bullet out of my 06. I can do it safely, and you won't get that out of a factory loaded cartridge. I have not tried the new Superformance Hornady stuff, but their older high energy loadings did nothing in my gun... 200 fps more would make it everything the 300win mag is, but a lot cooler!

 

[unklekippy]

.30-06 AI is to. 30-06 as .35 Brown-Whelen is to. 35 Whelen. In other words no appreciable gain. Nowdays it is hard to find something that really buys you an advantage over a factory cartridge or even rifle for that matter. To me unless it's a 350 fps gain or so, honestly, why bother?

I'm confused(it happens a lot). The .35 Whelen is the '06 necked up to .358. What case is the .35 Brown-Whelen based on? I know that there is a .35 Whelen Improved, but that would be a .35 Whelen allowed to expand in the chamber to create more powder capacity, correct?

 

[unklekippy]

Because I can already get a bit over 2800 fps with a 180 gr bullet out of my 06. I can do it safely, and you won't get that out of a factory loaded cartridge. I have not tried the new Superformance Hornady stuff, but their older high energy loadings did nothing in my gun... 200 fps more would make it everything the 300win mag is, but a lot cooler!

I can say that the Superformance stuff really works as advertised. A legitimate 175-200fps is gained for me in the .308 loading with the 150 grain GMX bullet. The 7mm-08 didn't gain as much, about 100fps. I believe that was a 120 grain SST or GMX. The .243 picked up 200fps as well. I haven't fired the '06 Superformance, but my buddy fired the .300 Win. in his rifle(I had to sit that one out) and it gained 150fps compared to a Remington Core-Lokt and a Federal(I don't know the exact load. It's been a couple years.) load all with 180's. I remember these gains specifically, because my intent was to try them all, as I had an "inside track" when they first came out. What the Superformance does that set's it apart is burn so darn fast that it's burnt before the bullet leaves the muzzle! It actually does that! Chamber pressures spike slightly faster than comparable loads, but max out about the same and drop off faster. I have an admitted foolish fear of burning barrels out, but in the rifles I own that I fired it in, which would be the .308, 7mm-08 & .243, the only one that would potentially have any ill effects would be the .243 and even then it would be slight. Since I've gone this far, I should also include that the .270 Win. loading gained 150-200fps over comparable 150 grain loads. It really is all it's cracked up to be and I am not a Hornady employee, nor do I even get free ammo any more. I haven't fired any in about 18 months, but I have a few boxes of .308 150gr. GMX's ready to expand in a whitetail or mule deer chest cavity. I would bet the '30-'06 load would be flat out deadly on deer with a 150, 165 or 168(like, Hammer Of God deadly) and an elk killer with a 180.

Man, now I want to go out and get a new '06. I haven't bought a new '06 in YEARS(since, I don't know, about '06.). I bet one of those Ruger American's or a Savage Model 11 Nikon package would look good on me. I mean, I can't wear my old '06 after Labor Day without being the laughing stock of the Lodge, can I?

 

[clambo]

I'm confused(it happens a lot). The .35 Whelen is the '06 necked up to .358. What case is the .35 Brown-Whelen based on? I know that there is a .35 Whelen Improved, but that would be a .35 Whelen allowed to expand in the chamber to create more powder capacity, correct?

You would probably have to look at some old reloading manuals to clarify this. Say early 80's vintage. What I call the Brown/Whelen may very well be known to the modern world as the. 35 Whelen Improved. As you know, a Whelen has little shoulder left after being sized to. 358.The Brown/Whelen had even less for maybe a 3gr powder capacity increase. I only chose it to use as an example that imho many wildcats are somewhat useless today. Everything that can be done, has been done. More or less. Then add the new Hornady ammo and wildcatting is really a moot point. (other than for fun) My last homebuilt rifle was a Whelen as you may have guessed, circa 1983. Now you can buy them off the shelf. Prior to that I did a 7-08. Voila! Now everyone has one ( although mine is an Arisaka ) Before that I did a 7mm Express. Now everyone and his brother has a. 280. Just not much new stuff left for the average Joe to mess with. Most of them are almost as good as a. 30-06. Just more fun to talk about.

 

[unklekippy]

You would probably have to look at some old reloading manuals to clarify this. Say early 80's vintage. What I call the Brown/Whelen may very well be known to the modern world as the. 35 Whelen Improved. As you know, a Whelen has little shoulder left after being sized to. 358.The Brown/Whelen had even less for maybe a 3gr powder capacity increase. I only chose it to use as an example that imho many wildcats are somewhat useless today. Everything that can be done, has been done. More or less. Then add the new Hornady ammo and wildcatting is really a moot point. (other than for fun) My last homebuilt rifle was a Whelen as you may have guessed, circa 1983. Now you can buy them off the shelf. Prior to that I did a 7-08. Voila! Now everyone has one ( although mine is an Arisaka ) Before that I did a 7mm Express. Now everyone and his brother has a. 280. Just not much new stuff left for the average Joe to mess with. Most of them are almost as good as a. 30-06. Just more fun to talk about.

I am perfectly aware that I really don't need another centerfire rifle besides an '06. I only have the one dominant trigger finger and can only carry so many rifles anyway. The rest really is just fun and boy do I have mine! Since "heavy" rounds are basically sighted in and hunted in my case, the biggest thing I shoot for recreation at all is the 7x57. Even then, the 7mm-08 doesthe same thing with a bit less recoil.

Though I won't argue necessity, since again anyone in North America, maybe anywhere but Africa, can do anything needed with an '06 and a 22lr(as far as rifles go). I will say that with the cartridges we have seen in the last 10-15 years, I hope people don't ever stop wildcatting! I think "new" cartridges are validated by the existence of the .300 WSM and the .375 Ruger. I would also cite the .270WSM, 7mmSAUM, .416 Ruger, 6.5 Creedmoor & 6.5x.284, thouh the incredible success of the .300WSM & .375 Ruger(this round has all the potential and momentum to replace the .375H&H. Lofty indeed, but who needs a magnum length case when you just blow the case body out to the circumference of the belt on the old magnum, producing identical ballistics in lighter rifles with less powder usage and less recoil?) is above them all. New rounds are fun and that's good enough for me.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

My beloved .22K Hornet and 6mm Remington! .25-35 Winchester! Ok, that's only in there because I have one. Elmer Kieth said that it was too light for deer. I always wanted to introduce him to my mom, who killed a big Nevada Muley every year with it! That's it for me,as all the others that I can think of have already been covered. If any of you guys get a chance try a .22 Hornet! What a joy to shoot!

 

[clambo]

I own 3 .30-06 rifles. I think they are the bees knees for North American game. Having said that the 06 is the most boring rifle you can own. Its like trying to brag abou a GLOCK. Works well but no pride of ownership. Although I have many rifles come season I'm shooting my. 257 Roberts or my Savage. 22 HiPower. Trust me the Savage makes the magnum crew piss theirselves......which is precisely why I do it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Having said that the 06 is the most boring rifle you can own. Its like trying to brag abou a GLOCK. Works well but no pride of ownership..

repento, clambo

 

[RVTECH]

I have often thought the 30-30 Winchester is one of the many underappreciated calibers. Loaded carefully with modern data it ain't your grandpas 30-30! The Sierra 125 gr. HP bullet makes the 30-30 scream - and you have one of the trimmest and most natural pointing rifles to use it in - the Mod 94 Winchester. I do have to admit though I prefer my 'true' model 94 with it's octagon barrel over the carbine. Nothing against the carbine but the additional weight of the octagon barrel makes a big difference. The crescent steel buttplate though transfers the recoil better than the flat carbine style and you feel a 30 or more round day with it more than the carbine.

 

[clambo]

Digging deep here but another classic I love,.30-40 Krag. No respect.

 

[jakk586]

Digging deep here but another classic I love,.30-40 Krag. No respect.

There is a very good reason for that.

My vote for most underappreciated is the 404 Jeffrey. Completely overshadowed by the Rigby, but every time a manufacturer wants to trot out some new ultra short super duper mag, they reach for a Jeffrey case on which to base it. It really was way ahead of its time. A beltless magnum case with a long neck and minimal body taper. Sound familiar?

 

[RVTECH]

I was reading some rifle history one time and the author stated the Krag was most likely directly responsible for the popularity of the modern bolt action rifle.

 

[unklekippy]

I was reading some rifle history one time and the author stated the Krag was most likely directly responsible for the popularity of the modern bolt action rifle.

And why not? It I the direct predecessor of our beloved '06.

I would have to argue that whatever the .30-40 did in terms of bolt rifle popularity, it did so on the back's of Wilhelm & Paul Mauser.

 

[unklekippy]

I have often thought the 30-30 Winchester is one of the many underappreciated calibers. Loaded carefully with modern data it ain't your grandpas 30-30! The Sierra 125 gr. HP bullet makes the 30-30 scream - and you have one of the trimmest and most natural pointing rifles to use it in - the Mod 94 Winchester. I do have to admit though I prefer my 'true' model 94 with it's octagon barrel over the carbine. Nothing against the carbine but the additional weight of the octagon barrel makes a big difference. The crescent steel buttplate though transfers the recoil better than the flat carbine style and you feel a 30 or more round day with it more than the carbine.

My only problem with my Winchester 94 is unnecessary recoil. It is one cartridge that I have never reloaded for. I don't know why, I just never have. It may have to do with my 94 being the last gun that belonged to Dad. I gave his few others to my Niece and Nephew's. The 94 stays with me and goes to my boy when it is time. I suppose by the time I get there, I will have not only reloading dies, but plenty of components as well. I will definitely look into that 125gr. Sierra.

I agree with your assessment of the 94's natural pointing and that the full barrel facilitates a less painful day at the range. The carbine has a place, but it is in thick timber or when being carried for miles.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

I would have to argue that whatever the .30-40 did in terms of bolt rifle popularity, it did so on the back's of Wilhelm & Paul Mauser.

Well spoken.

 

[unklekippy]

Digging deep here but another classic I love,.30-40 Krag. No respect.

I have no problem with the Krag, but it is rendered futile by the '06 and now many other "better" .30's. Still, there's nothing wrong with loving a classic.

 

[unklekippy]

Since the Winchester 94 was brought up, I have thought of a few more calibers and guns that I believe fit the bill.

When was someone going to bring up the .348 Winchester and the greatest lever gun of all time, the Winchester 71? From there, we have the .444 Marlin, which I personally prefer to the .450 Marlin. The .45-70 is and has been gaining popularity for the last 40 years, thanks to Marlin, but still underappreciated in that it can damn near meet and surpass the .458 Winchester in modern rifles. I also find the .50 Alaskan that stared life as a wildcat in rechambered 71's and then Marlin 1895's very intriguing. I've never fired one, but would love to.

Also, 2 new cartridges that I hope stick around are the Ruger .300 & .338 RCM's(Ruger Compact Magnums). A couple more short cases that use less powder and give the same ballistics as their Win. Mag brethren.

 

[clambo]

I have no problem with the Krag, but it is rendered futile by the '06 and now many other "better" .30's. Still, there's nothing wrong with loving a classic.

My love for the Krag isnt necessarily for ballistic reasons as it is for the fact that it's a natural for another hobby of mine. Cast bullets.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

My 2 cents, the two Krags I have handled had butter smooth actions and were beautifully made. They look cool too!

 

[Velzey]

Gentlemen, I will admit I have a problem with the Ackley Improved line...

I have 13 rifles in AI and still not happy, I always seem to want more.

I just got my latest reamer in from Pacific just this week......7mm STW Ackley Improved. I cant wait to see what I can do with it!!