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Underappreciated calibers

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by unklekippy, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    I have been really enamored with the 7x57 Mauser all my life. .250 Savage as well. I feel as though both of those should be more popular than they are. I feel the same about the .35 Whelen and .358 Winchester. On a lesser level, the .257 Roberts, though I feel it gets some of the respect it deserves. Does anyone else have any cartridges that they feel are underappreciated or "left out" simply because they are old(.300H&H) or obsolete(.375 Winchester)? I'm sure this isn't the first thread of this nature, but these are the calibers I feel would be criminal if allowed to slip completely into obscurity.
     
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  2. Asavage270

    Asavage270 eugene Active Member

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    Recently I purchased my first 10mm.
    Picked up a RIA 1911 chambered in 10mm and man can that thing shoot. Personally I think it has less felt recoil than a .45 when using range ammo, and when it counts it can put down well over 725 Ft-pounds of energy with some true "10mm Heavy" loadings.

    overall a managable, flat shooting, and powerful handgun round. It will always be in my collection from now on.
     
  3. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    280 Remington and 264 win mag.
     
  4. clambo

    clambo Vancouver, Wa. Well-Known Member

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    .22 Hornet, 6.5x55, .30 carbine, .300 H&H, .358 Norma. Was gonna mention. 257 Roberts but you beat me to it. How bout. 300 Savage instead? You also beat me to the Whelen.
     
  5. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    +1 on the Hornet and the .280 Rem! Also I'd like to throw the .6mm Rem. into the mix, it makes the .243 look like a sissy, if it wouldn't have been for American shooters and gun writers hating anything with millimeter attached to the name at that time, the .243 would have faded, and not became quite the darling it did. And the .25-06, now there's an underrated cartridge.
     
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  6. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Winchester .351 and .401 Self Loading..

    Winchester-poster.jpg
     
  7. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    .41 Magnum.
     
  8. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    OK, personally I don't believe 10mm to be underappreciated(that doesn't mean anyone else should agree or disagree. That's just my stance.). I believe .41 magnum would fit the description a little better. I love the 10mm and if our PD's weren't collectively sissy, we'd have them in holsters on police.

    The .280 Remington is a wonderful cartridge and I would argue that it is actually growing, especially with the existence of the Kimber rifle in .280 Ackley Improved. What a round. The .264 Win. Mag is a wonderful cartridge, especially in the 26-inch barreled original Model 70 "Westerner". I think the .280 loses out to the 7mm Mag, 7mm-08, 7x57 and 7mm SAUM(another fine and poorly underrated caliber that won't shred your barrel as fast as a 7mmWSM). I also think there are so many fine 7mm cartridges that I love it. I think the .264 Win. has the barrel burning problem, especially when compared to the 6.5x284, 6.5 Creedmoor(never fired one. I am very interested.), .260 Rem. and 6.5x55.

    clambo, I think the .22 Hornet is a fine round and when chambered in a Ruger 77, makes a perfect day at the range with your young son. Criminal it would be if that round went away, but I think there are too many that love it to see it go. I love the 6.5x55(can't wait to get a new(er) production rifle in that caliber. The dimensions on the old chambers are ridiculous and all over the place.) and .300H&H. Whereas the 6.5x55 is truly underrated, I believe the H&H may actually be rendered obsolete by the existence of other, more capable .30 caliber magnums. I still love it, though. The .358 Norma has far too heavy recoil for my back. In the .35's, I draw the line at the Whelen(still, the Norma mags are AWESOME. The .308 & .358.). I think .30 carbine is very common in comparison to some of the calibers we have mentioned, but it is fair to say that in general, it is overlooked by far too many people as a defensive weapon(the round AND the carbine itself). Your wife or 8 year old can handle it like a pro, while it spits up to 130 grain projectiles out the tube. Good stuff. I personally think the .300 Savage is so close to the .308 that it truly is obsolete.

    "City" John(wink), the 6mm DOES make the .243 look wimpy, but is it necessary? Except in the case of long distance varmint shooting, is it worth the lessened barrel life for the gained speed? I don't have a problem with your appraisal of the 6mm(and your assessment that it is underrated), but I think the .243 is a fine cartridge. The 6mm wildcat's(the .22/6mm Whitetail round is pretty neat, though I may have butchered the name.) are very interesting. I completely agree with you on the .25-06. Though it is a popular round, it is nowhere near where it should be in comparison to it's usefulness.

    The .351 WSL is completely and totally obsolete, given the non-existence of .351 prjectiles. The .401 is an amazing bit of firepower that is still relevant today. I had the opportunity to buy a .351 and passed. Had it been a .401 I'd have been all over it. The rifles chambered for the rounds are nothing to spit at, either.

    I am simply engaging the conversation. My opinions do not define right and wrong, they only define what I have learned in a lifetime of shooting and hunting. Please don't take any of my comments as in any way "bashing" the calibers mentioned, as that is not my intention.

    I forgot to mention a few revolver rounds. The .41 mag(can you have a "crush" on a caliber? I think this might be mine.), .44-40 & .38-40 are all wonderful and fine cartridges. I wish Ruger would chamber the Blackhawk in .44-40 & .38-40. I am aware of the promotional Buckeye in 10mm with the .38-40 cylinder and the .44 mag with the .44-40 cylinder, but those are rare collector's guns and I believe they should be in production guns as well.

    I am a complete nerd when it comes to this stuff. I had a collection of Elmer Keith, Jeff Cooper, Carlos Hathcock, Skeeter Skelton, Charley Askins Jr.(my absolute hero and the finest Border Patrol agent ever. His descriptions of "plugging the Jazz'bo spang in the brisket" and his extensive career have led me to start writing a book in defense of the man. I am hitting a wall at his time in Rhodesia and parts of his Advisor role in Vietnam in '57-'59. Anyone with info, please PM.) and others by the time I was 12 years old. Now that my back is so beyond repair, I do almost as much reading as shooting and my shooting is for the most part done with revolvers these days. I still get out EVERY day and take at least a few shots. I figure as long as I get 4,000 rounds a year down the barrel of my .357 BH I can stay sharp, but at 34 I have to come to terms with the fact that no more shooting competition trophies will line my wall. Still, I like my chances in a gunfight even in the condition I'm in and I accredit a lot of that to the books I read in the past and will read in the future.

    Lastly, I would like to recommend to anyone looking to be a champion pistol shooter(or to at least master the use of a revolver or semi-auto handgun.) the books "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" by Ed McGivern(if you're not familiar with McGivern, check out the old black & white footage of him putting 5 rounds into 5/8" at 25 yards with his S&W revolvers. Amazing.), "Sixguns and Bullseyes and Automatic Pistol Marksmanship: A Compehensive Manual On Target Shooting" by William Reichenbach, "Sixguns" by Elmer Keith and "The Art of Handgun Shooting", "The Pistol Shooter's Book" and ANY others by Charley Askins Jr. His insights on the shooting of targets, game and men is beyond reproach.

    Sorry, I ramble in my post's almost as much as I do in real life. I could go on for hours about this stuff. I love it and I appreciate your responses.
     
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  9. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    5.7x28

    [video=youtube;Vq8qHBMeCiw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq8qHBMeCiw[/video]
     
  10. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    I am only familiar with the 5.7x28 on paper. I fired 20 rounds from my cousin's FN last year, but that is hardly qualification.

    Hey, with a drill like this I can finally throw away my Jeff Cooper books(blasphemy)! Who needs El Presidente when you have gummy bears? What's that tape measure doing there?

    Seriously, wasn't the 5.7 emasculated because it frankly did to good of a job? I don't like the idea of a gun that you can only get effective(or MORE effective. I'm sure the stuff off the shelf still flies pretty fast.) ammo for costing $1+ per round and being labeled as a "collector's item". I would imagine that if a steel-cored 5.7 projectile caught on the skull and didn't deflect off it could easily kill a bear. Still, 10mm, .357, .41 & .44 are my bear calibers.
     
  11. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Largest caliber shoulder fired hunting rifle ever made was the British 4 bore double rifle.
    4-Bore’s bullet diameters varied widely in the cartridge versions usually around .935 to .955 with the true one inch size normally found only in the old muzzle loading rifles.

    If one would caculate the 4 bore into American caliber standards it would be something between .93 and .95 caliber. Bullet weighs something like 1800 grains. That's over a quarter pound folks. The .50 caliber tops out at 750 grains. 700 Express 1000 grains.
     
  12. ogre

    ogre Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    .318 Westley Richards.
     
  13. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    Well, that is an interesting round. I have never fired one. I shoot(or used to shoot. It just kind of collects dust now.) 8mm Mauser. It seems comparable, but again, I have never fired one. Is it comparable?
     
  14. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    Even if my back wasn't a disgusting wreck, I wouldn't want to shoot that! I've heard of elephant guns, but is that a whale gun?

    A few years ago, I stopped at the shooting spot on Hwy. 47 just past the Memaloose Road bridge to pick up brass and found 4-.458 Lott cases. I had never found "dangerous game" type cases at such a "redneck" shooting place. That's not really a relevant story, I just found it strange to find those cases at that place and you bringing up the 4 bore made me remember it.
     
  15. ogre

    ogre Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Well Sir, IMO concerning North American game animals: there is no practical difference between the two cartridges. The .318 with the 250 gr. bullet at 2,400 fps. is a deep penetrating killer that really shines as African hunting cartridge.

    When I was stationed in Hawaii a shooting buddy of mine had a rifle along with some old Kynoch staked (stabbed) cartridges. We took them to Koko Head range and shot them off. They were pretty old and some of them had a right noticeable delay (hangfire) before they went off. Fun none the less. They might have been worth a buck or two to a collector but he was bound and determined to shoot them all so I helped him.
     
  16. sprocket3

    sprocket3 Oregon - Wet Side Member

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    I want my bandwidth and 45 seconds back.
     
  17. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    This, especially the AI version, is about the only thing I can think I would replace my '06 with. So much so, that I've given a fair amount of thought to doing my favorite '06 into a 30-06 AI.
     
  18. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense. 250's at 2,500 fps is why I went with the .35 Whelen and BL-C(2) powder. I think I would rather shoot those old cartridges as well. For North American game, I very much like an 8mm Mauser loaded with a 170 grain Hornady SP. I guess if you had a supply of brass and dies, the Westley Richards round could be quite useful in the thick timber around my place.
     
  19. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    Is there that much to gain with the Ackley version of the '06? I honestly don't know. I know that the .280 is really the round that seemed to squeeze out the additional fps. I would go as far as to call it hi crowning achievement.

    On a side note, I used to work with P.O. Ackley's Grandson an Great Grandson. The Grandson was offered Ackley's business in the '80's when he retired. He is not at all a gun guy(though a great businessman.) and passed on it. Had he taken it, I never would have known him(he'd have stayed in Utah), but I still can't believe he passed it up. I tried my damnedest to get an actual Ackley rifle, then one of his old notebooks. Unfortunately, the family had already parted with what they were going to sell by then. Ackley's office in his home still sits as it was. I wonder what incredible things are in there, surrounded by people that have no care for firearms? What a shame.
     
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  20. clambo

    clambo Vancouver, Wa. Well-Known Member

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    .30-06 AI is to. 30-06 as .35 Brown-Whelen is to. 35 Whelen. In other words no appreciable gain. Nowdays it is hard to find something that really buys you an advantage over a factory cartridge or even rifle for that matter. To me unless it's a 350 fps gain or so, honestly, why bother?