Oregon Trying to understand "ownership"

[bailerhill]

I was in a handgun class recently and I'm trying to understand something that the instructor mentioned, on the topic of having a loaded firearm in the home that anyone aside from yourself (the "owner", I guess) can access. Pistol safes were being discussed and his comment was that you should have your own, and your spouse should have their own. If there was ever a home-defense incident where a firearm was used, that would keep the lines of responsibility clear... or at least I believe that was the jist of it.

Of course I understand this concept in the context of news stories I've heard, specifically a few where a kid at home got access to their parent's gun and went and shot someone, and the parent had legal problems--that makes sense, because they let someone who should not have a gun get ahold of one. It's harder to understand how it might apply to my situation. My wife and I live together in our house, no kids or anyone else lives here, we both train and shoot (she is quite good at it), we both know where the key to the safe is, and presumably everything in this house is "marital property". But, I am the one who has actually gone to gun stores and bought guns, with our joint money--my wife has not done that.

So... who actually "owns" the guns, and is responsible for how they are used?

Any responses appreciated, and it is assumed that you are not a lawyer.

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[TTSX]

Nice way to make a simple concept complicated, instructor....

If you're married, what's yours is hers and what's hers is yours.

If your wife kills the bad guy with "your" gun and you're both still alive at the end, do you really give a damn who "owned" that gun at all?

 

[wombatz]

I agree with TTSX. I guess it would get complicated if you and your wife had some disagreement after the fact. In that case it might be best for each to have thier own gun. But you should also be looking into divorce or counseling in that case.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I was in a handgun class recently and I'm trying to understand something that the instructor mentioned, on the topic of having a loaded firearm in the home that anyone aside from yourself (the "owner", I guess) can access. Pistol safes were being discussed and his comment was that you should have your own, and your spouse should have their own. If there was ever a home-defense incident where a firearm was used, that would keep the lines of responsibility clear... or at least I believe that was the jist of it.

Of course I understand this concept in the context of news stories I've heard, specifically a few where a kid at home got access to their parent's gun and went and shot someone, and the parent had legal problems--that makes sense, because they let someone who should not have a gun get ahold of one. It's harder to understand how it might apply to my situation. My wife and I live together in our house, no kids or anyone else lives here, we both train and shoot (she is quite good at it), we both know where the key to the safe is, and presumably everything in this house is "marital property". But, I am the one who has actually gone to gun stores and bought guns, with our joint money--my wife has not done that.

So... who actually "owns" the guns, and is responsible for how they are used?

Any responses appreciated, and it is assumed that you are not a lawyer.

For home defense I woudl assume he meant you know where your gun is and you use your gun. Your wife uses her gun. That way when you go to get your gun you aren't surprised that your wife has it in the safest room in the house with the kids. So you are left twiddling your thumbs. I wasn't there so just guessing. But responsibilities clear and having a code word so you don't get shot is damned smart imo.

 

[RVTECH]

I agree with TTSX.

And so do I.

It sounds to me like the instructor is 'convoluting' (and complicating) ownership issues and trying to 'create' something that in reality does not exist in the 'legal' aspect of 'marital property'.

His reference to pistol safes and that you should have your own, and your spouse should have their own is really taking it to 'extremes'. Personally most I know who keep a pistol 'handy' for defensive purposes do NOT keep them in a safe.

I guess it would get complicated if you and your wife had some disagreement after the fact.

Yes it could and it would be an unfortunate situation if it did and might result in some serious 'relationship' changes but HOPEFULLY most married couples are 'congruent' with gun ownership and the prospect of using them for self defense if necessary.

 

[Alexx1401]

I was in a handgun class recently and I'm trying to understand something that the instructor mentioned, on the topic of having a loaded firearm in the home that anyone aside from yourself (the "owner", I guess) can access. Pistol safes were being discussed and his comment was that you should have your own, and your spouse should have their own. If there was ever a home-defense incident where a firearm was used, that would keep the lines of responsibility clear... or at least I believe that was the jist of it.

Of course not a lawyer but this "sounds" to me like someone making stuff up in his own head. Now if you are just living with someone not married? "Maybe". To me it would be insane to have gun safes for both me and my Wife.

 

[Nosferatu]

Ownership is just a social construct.

Post an inventory so we know if we want to come pick something up.

Pictures help too.

 

[bcp]

If you're married, what's yours is hers and what's hers is yours.

If you're married, what's yours is hers and what's hers is hers.

Bruce

 

[petehammer]

I was in a handgun class recently and I'm trying to understand something that the instructor mentioned, on the topic of having a loaded firearm in the home that anyone aside from yourself (the "owner", I guess) can access. Pistol safes were being discussed and his comment was that you should have your own, and your spouse should have their own. If there was ever a home-defense incident where a firearm was used, that would keep the lines of responsibility clear... or at least I believe that was the jist of it.

Of course I understand this concept in the context of news stories I've heard, specifically a few where a kid at home got access to their parent's gun and went and shot someone, and the parent had legal problems--that makes sense, because they let someone who should not have a gun get ahold of one. It's harder to understand how it might apply to my situation. My wife and I live together in our house, no kids or anyone else lives here, we both train and shoot (she is quite good at it), we both know where the key to the safe is, and presumably everything in this house is "marital property". But, I am the one who has actually gone to gun stores and bought guns, with our joint money--my wife has not done that.

So... who actually "owns" the guns, and is responsible for how they are used?

Any responses appreciated, and it is assumed that you are not a lawyer.

Can I ask where you took this class? I have a guess.

 

[bailerhill]

Can I ask where you took this class? I have a guess.

Interested in your guess but not looking to name anyone.

 

[coreymet]

Nice way to make a simple concept complicated, instructor....

If you're married, what's yours is hers and what's hers is yours.

If your wife kills the bad guy with "your" gun and you're both still alive at the end, do you really give a damn who "owned" that gun at all?

Wait, Wait. . . my wife firmly believes what 's yours is hers and what's hers is hers!

 

[TTSX]

Wait, Wait. . . my wife firmly believes what 's yours is hers and what's hers is hers!

Hey, I'm not married to your wife, what's mine is mine and what's hers is definitely hers. What's yours is also hers, of course but the point remains... What's mine is mine.

 

[rambler]

Instructor sounds vague on this score, but assuming he meant more than being familiar with your own firearm:

I doubt LEO would get worked up over you grabbing your wife's gun in a pinch, if you are acting within your own home and with solid self defense tactics.

Besides, from a civil perspective....

if your wife ended up shooting a perp with her gun, and it was an iffy shoot...you may not go to jail, but do you think your estate would be exempt? Nope

Similarly if you did the shoot with your gun, do you think she would be exempt from a lawsuit? Nope

Worrying about whose gun you have, while in your home, strikes me as sharpening the tip too much...

 

[petehammer]

Interested in your guess but not looking to name anyone.

No fair.

At Clackamas public safety training center I've experienced a lot of pontificating without any actual legal citations. Lots of "war stories" and "anecdotes" without any facts.

 

[dangerranger60]

So this is another "what happens in CA" answer. In CA I used to be able to share a gun with my wife. But recent changes in the law have ended that.
My wife can no longer list a gun registered to me on her CCW. It is still an untested legal theory that if my wife used my gun in a SD emergency she and I could be prosecuted, her for using an unregistered gun and me for illegally transferring a gun to her.
look carefully at the laws about loaning a gun in Ore law.
There are some exceptions where CA law would allow it, But she would have to posses a current Handgun Safety Card, And I would have to know that! DR

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

To me it almost sounds like a complicated (and unnecessary) dance to 'get your stories straight' before the PoPo show up so you have a simple, easy to remember storyline to tell them: I heard a noise, I got my firearm from my safe, I investigated the noise . . . *
It also sounds maybe like something he's selling to distinguish him from all the other instructors


* When I first typed that I missed a key by one and it read: I heard a noise, I got my firearm from my sage, I investigated the noise . . .
I mean, that's clearly wrong, but it's also Portland, so. . . maybe?

 

[Stomper]

Nice way to make a simple concept complicated, instructor....

If you're married, what's yours is hers and what's hers is yours.

If your wife kills the bad guy with "your" gun and you're both still alive at the end, do you really give a damn who "owned" that gun at all?

What you just said smacks of naïveté, so allow me to correct your ridiculously flawed perception....


What's yours is hers, and what's her's is her's.






There, FIFY!

 

[Stomper]

Hey, I'm not married to your wife, what's mine is mine and what's hers is definitely hers. What's yours is also hers, of course but the point remains... What's mine is mine.

No.... she keeps "those" in her purse.

 

[nammac]

Nice way to make a simple concept complicated, instructor....

If you're married, what's yours is hers and what's hers is yours.

If your wife kills the bad guy with "your" gun and you're both still alive at the end, do you really give a damn who "owned" that gun at all?

No, no, no…

What's yours is hers and what's hers is her own….

 

[Koda]

and presumably everything in this house is "marital property". But, I am the one who has actually gone to gun stores and bought guns, with our joint money--my wife has not done that.

So... who actually "owns" the guns, and is responsible for how they are used?

As far as I know anything purchased while married belongs to both equally. As far as self defense, even if you were roommates and agreed to share your gun for the house it will come down to if the shooting was justified or not it wont matter who actually owns the gun. Note: despite the BGC law its legal to temporarily loan a gun for self defense... I think.