Downsides to precious metals?

[OnWalkAbout]

WhenTF did they sneak that in?

Was that in HB-1240?

I didn't see it in the list...

'Light Grenades' too.

 

[Mono1]

Does the seller of the food or gas hand you back little pieces of gold or silver, or does he just keep the difference? You may find you need to chop up those gold and silver coins, and hope the dealers will take pieces as payment.

That's why you need Silver as well as Gold. Gold is your savings, Silver is your currency, and Junk Silver (AKA Pre-'65 quarters) are for making change.

 

[Mono1]

I know it's a fictional work, but your question is answered within pretty well, and from an author who's pretty well-respected in the scenario you presented...

View attachment 2315045

And @Camelfilter also provided accurate information as well...


In a SHTF scenario as you describe, there won't be any "dealers" (at least as we know them now) around anymore.

Excellent Book, @sobo . Literally a Survival Course disguised as a Novel. A Masterpiece!

 

[leicaman]

Back in the olden days ( for this example, say about 1765) buying with gold or silver coins could often involve cutting a coin in half, quarters, or even eighths. Search for the origin of the term/phrase "two bits".
I once got lucky and found a few of the very coins associated with that term.....for a very good price. It pays to be lucky .

During the height of the CA gold rush, a very large proportion of the population owned a scale. A universally accepted price for an ounce of gold helped. The gubbament set the price and a little math along with a scale worked pretty good. I should say that there were some kinks in that system arising from the (unknown) purity of gold that wasn't officially minted by the US mint or trusted private mints.

 

[kmk1012]

Anyone wanting to offload their PM, I would be interested in buying, or trading.

PM inbound

 

[Bolt_308]

Back in the olden days ( for this example, say about 1765) buying with gold or silver coins could often involve cutting a coin in half, quarters, or even eighths. Search for the origin of the term/phrase "two bits".
I once got lucky and found a few of the very coins associated with that term.....for a very good price. It pays to be lucky .

During the height of the CA gold rush, a very large proportion of the population owned a scale. A universally accepted price for an ounce of gold helped. The gubbament set the price and a little math along with a scale worked pretty good. I should say that there were some kinks in that system arising from the (unknown) purity of gold that wasn't officially minted by the US mint or trusted private mints.

If you are a fan of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, they often refer to the "Pieces of Eight". As you mention, they would take a coin made of silver and gold, and snip off a corner. Thus the term 'pieces' came to be.

I have in my collection an ACTUAL "Piece of Eight", recovered from an actual shipwreck around the golden age of piracy! "Pieces of Eight" stemmed from the 8Reales coin, which the Spanish minted during those times out of pure silver:

 

[Mono1]

I know it's a fictional work, but your question is answered within pretty well, and from an author who's pretty well-respected in the scenario you presented...

View attachment 2315045

And @Camelfilter also provided accurate information as well...


In a SHTF scenario as you describe, there won't be any "dealers" (at least as we know them now) around anymore.

I actually met James Wesley, Rawles and shook his hand one time, many years ago, at a Gun Show in (of all places) Costa Mesa, California. They actually did have a great show until it was shut down (of course).

 

[Mark4]

I like precious metals over the dollar, keeps losing its value to inflation

 

[sobo]

California has changed so much so fast. I know a certain person (will not confirm or deny who it is) that actually obtained a CCW with relative ease (proper amount of effort that actually included qualification showing a threshold group at 10 meters). Those days are so far long gone it hurts.
Oh, the CCW was obtained in 1989.

Wrong thread...?

Mebbe this is the one you wanted?

 

[Camelfilter]

Wrong thread...?

Mebbe this is the one you wanted?

Moved the post.

 

[gmerkt]

If you are a fan of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, they often refer to the "Pieces of Eight".

In the 1970's when I was swapping guns in the parking lot of Stan's Gun Room, some people would come around with silver coins to trade. One gentleman from somewhere south of the border, speaking no English, wanted a pistol I had. So he'd pile some coins on my card table, then I'd shake my head, indicating, "not enough." Then he'd pile a few more on, repeat, repeat, several times. When by my calculation he'd piled up enough for an asking cash equivalent, I nodded my head and the transaction was done. Many of the coins were silver US 90% coins, including dimes. In the dimes (old spelling, "disme"), I found a half reál coin from Spanish Mexico, I think the date was 1777, if I remember correctly. It was fairly well worn. A good example of, if a thing is old, it isn't necessarily valuable.

 

[WEE]

I've been out of touch with a lot of things lately, my wife has middle-stage Alzheimer's and I have been trying to continue to be her primary caretaker. Anyway, I have lots of gold and silver American Eagles that I bought back 15-ish years ago.
My question is on the WA sales tax:
If I sell a coin to a coin store, who pays the sales tax?
If I buy a coin at a coin store, who pays the sales tax?
If I sell a coin on eBay, for example, who pays the sales tax?
If I buy a coin on eBay, who pays the sales tax?
I guess the easy answer for me so far is to go to Oregon or Idaho for significant transactions, whether buying or selling.

 

[Camelfilter]

I've been out of touch with a lot of things lately, my wife has middle-stage Alzheimer's and I have been trying to continue to be her primary caretaker. Anyway, I have lots of gold and silver American Eagles that I bought back 15-ish years ago.
My question is on the WA sales tax:
If I sell a coin to a coin store, who pays the sales tax?
If I buy a coin at a coin store, who pays the sales tax?
If I sell a coin on eBay, for example, who pays the sales tax?
If I buy a coin on eBay, who pays the sales tax?
I guess the easy answer for me so far is to go to Oregon or Idaho for significant transactions, whether buying or selling.

Likely you will take the hit on taxes on any Wa transaction. Either paying it directly on a purchase, or via premium markup on a sale.

-Sorry to hear about your wife!

 

[gmerkt]

If I sell a coin to a coin store, who pays the sales tax?

I don't think any state sales taxes are incurred if you sell a coin to a dealer. Only if you are a buyer.

If I sell a coin on eBay, for example, who pays the sales tax?
If I buy a coin on eBay, who pays the sales tax?

Buying or selling on ebay, the platform works out the taxes. Buyers will pay whatever taxes are due in their location.

BUT: I'd advise against buying or selling precious metals coins on ebay. Too many ways to get flimflammed. Aside from the fact that ebay collects a hefty seller fee with each sales transaction, possibly more than the difference between buy/sell from a bricks and mortar dealer. Then there is shipping to consider, both as to cost and security.

 

[gmerkt]

or via premium markup on a sale.

In my opinion, this is the cleanest way to dispose of PM. Given that you have shopped around and found a reputable dealer with accepted market rate buy back figures. This market is pretty much a known known; when you think about the values being exchanged, the margin isn't very wide. Normally, outside of a panic or a collapse in the onward market (like overloaded refineries, for example).

Ebay gets 13.6% fee for bullion sales up to $7,500, I think it is, and it drops to 7% above that amount. Which in my opinion is hefty. The retail dealer spread on gold coins runs something like 4.5 to 7%, routinely. Without any shipping nonsense, etc. And no paperwork.

 

[Cavedweller]

For those not interested in Technical Analysis,

I love charts and charting, but time has convinced me that TA is a bit like looking out the rear window of a car - You can see where you've been but it's not very helpful in determining where you're going. (Not picking on you, Bud. I've been waiting months for the opportunity to drop that little pearl. )

Biggest downside to precious metals is how do you pay for things with it? Say you have a bunch of gold and silver ounces and the world falls apart. Now whatever you need can be bought with gold or silver, but what do you get for change when your tank of gas, food, or whatever costs less than that gold or silver ounce you have gets handed over? Does the seller of the food or gas hand you back little pieces of gold or silver, or does he just keep the difference? You may find you need to chop up those gold and silver coins, and hope the dealers will take pieces as payment.

When I began purchasing PMs years ago it was for portfolio insurance. Primarily to protect against the debasing of fiat currency which seems to be an irresistible temptation for all forms of government throughout time. In this respect they have performed better than any other investment I have made, except perhaps real estate. Although TEOTWAWKI was in the back of my mind, it was never the primary reason for purchasing PMs. That said, I do believe that human beings are tremendously adaptive and creative, and in a SHTF scenario such as you describe, the needs of the market place will provide some solution to this "problem."

You do realize this was a complete aberration, a secular event based largely on panic driven market momentum...

I respectfully disagree with this assessment. I believe fundamental changes in the marketplace largely drove the move upward in the past year. In the case of gold, it was central bank buying by countries moving away from dollar denominated assets that created increased demand for the metal. In the case of silver, it was the imbalance between physical supply and industrial demand driven largely by the boom in electrification, computing, and the solar industry. Although speculation and "irrational exuberance" may have contributed to the market overshooting a real price level (which is not uncommon in market booms), to attribute the entire phenomenon to panic driven momentum is to ignore the fundamentals of the market. Both metals appear to have formed new bases that are significantly higher than a year ago, even after the pullback. (Gold up 30% over year-ago prices and silver nearly double). Although the current conflict with Iran may have tempered enthusiasm somewhat, the fundamentals haven't changed. If anything, the exorbitant costs associated with it do not bode well for the dollar long term, and signal accelerated debasement of fiat in the future as a result.