Trump calls for background checks

[Burnhaven]

It isn't that some diseases can't be radically reduced --- it's that WE ARE NOT WILLING to do what is required. For example, eliminate international travel. We even allow people coming from Ebola-infested countries to fly here without any quarantine/testing period.

So, we also seem to be unwilling to eliminate firearms from society. For the sake of argument, we could institute an immediate death penalty without trial for anyone found possessing firearms or ammunition. We are not willing to do that --- we have chosen to expose ourselves to that "extra risk." What is the logical response and way to live given these conditions?

"According to the CDC, flu-related deaths between the years of 1976 and 2007 ranged from 3,000 to 49,000. From 2010 to 2016, the flu-related death rate was between 12,000 and 56,000, with the highest season being 2012 to 2013 and the lowest being 2011 to 2012."

 

[Geardo]

Hmm, not saying I'm convinced but you seem to be saying (taco_lean) that, like the common cold, flu, measles etc, the average person will eat right, get rest, take vitamins, get vaccinated etc to protect themselves from things that cannot be eradicated from society.
So, if the occasional whacko is going to go nuts with a gun on a somewhat regular basis, the logical thing ( and possibly the only possible defense) is to carry a gun. In the same vein, society CANNOT rid itself of socially maladjusted individuals who have access to firearms anymore than it has eliminated influenza. So, again, you do what you can to defend against it.

Yep. Precisely.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

 

[bbbass]

I beg to differ and do believe it is true. Okay. Click to see more answers...

Where is the consistent national message? An occasional 1 minute NRA ad on national TV doesn't cut it. I don't know... I don't watch TV news. Tell me what you would like to see! More talking heads? Fair and balanced interviews with pro 2A supporters? You really expect MSM to give us airtime to espouse our viewpoint? How about Facebook groups... they don't count? See "Stop Oregon Gun Ban" and Active Self Protection FB pages as well as the multitude of progun personalities on YouTube.

Who is our spokesman or spokespeople? I would have voted for Ollie North, since Charton Heston is busy having a private convo with God about how heavy those stone tablets were. Maybe Ted Nugent???

Do we have a "united" lobby of pro 2A peoples? Would have been the NRA but Wayne screwed the pooch and they are under constant attack. Now it's SAF and GOA.

Who is the "face" of pro-2A in America currently? You are. Get busy!

While I agree that John Lott is a valuable resource, personally, I think there is a whole lot of "divide and conquer" going on.
Eh? Please relate that to John Lott, not sure how that works. Nor am I seeing what you would do that would help undivide us, or the nation, or whatever.

Again, personally, I would rather continue to wish and hope and try to fill the vacuum, then to devolve into civil war or go all Red Hawk (E.G. Bourroughs) or "Yangs and Comms" (1st Star Trek) as my only alternate reality.

I wish us - even those who stand in opposition - the best. I do not relish that my/our legacy will be viewed as participatory in turning my/our country into another Beirut.

There are more than two paths/choices. I have no intention of starting a civil war, but I will serve if called to defend the Constitution. One must realize that our way of life is under attack. It will not be gun-owners that turn the country into Beirut, it will be Socialist Elites turning the country into Venezuela. They've been at it since the 30s, it is only now that they are having significant success. Gun confiscation is only one step in the process.

A matter of perspective it seems. I was thinking of messaging on a more personal level since your other post was talking bout "discussions" which implies personal conversation, and since what we were batting back and corth is your assertion that "The 2A community uses their rights as a shield without any plan or discussion." Meaning us. We are the 2A community. You've been here for all the threads about new gun laws. You should know that people from this forum are going to meetings, Salem, speaking up, working with and supporting SAF and GOA. Now you suddenly switch to national spokespersons and messaging. This tired old mind can't keep up.

And on the national level we need to look at it on a scale of many years. What the NRA has done recently needs to be looked at with appreciation for what they have done over the years. Their lobbying efforts alone have blocked much adverse legislation and had, up until recently, all the politicians too scared of the collective might to move legislation.

It's all been done before. We need a new 2A messiah? Go for it!!! You're the man for the job!

IMO there is no vacuum, currently the antis have got it all filled up. No other public voices are given time, and if they do appear they are shouted down, ridiculed, or their time cut off, or their speech venues AntiFa'd. And my dear old pappy tol me when I was a wee lad, that you can wish, and hope, in one hand and poop in the other and see which one fills up faster. So, I applaud your taking action and will look forward to seeing you address Congress, write articles for Fax News, make speeches, etc.

Again, good luck to you in your efforts. I'm tired of wasting my breath, and time and energy trying to reach the biased minds that have succumbed to the fear and propaganda of MSM, NPR, Universities, and school system. It's your turn!!!

 

[ACO]

He may want just expanded background checks or red flag laws, but I'm seeing rumblings of more magazine bans and AR pistol bans. Sounds like they are going all out to push through every wet dream they have either by back alley or out in the open. Don't be surprused, but what can we do anyways when places luke here in WA are outnumbered and outfunded?

 

[The Heretic]

Trump explores executive action on guns

The president and his aides are seeking options to address gun violence that would circumvent Congress.

www.politico.com

 

[Camelfilter]

Trump explores executive action on guns

The president and his aides are seeking options to address gun violence that would circumvent Congress.

www.politico.com

Whom ever is whispering in his ear REALLY wants him to lose re-election, ala Bush Senior. If he continues to listen to those folks he will.

After Bush senior lost, we ended up with Clinton & the AWB. The voting on it was close, AND there was the sunset clause.

Does anyone believe ANY new anti-2A laws passed under an anti-2A candidate will sunset? "They" (anti-2A folk) are openly mentioning taking firearms, something quite new in the US political arena...

 

[bbbass]

"Show me a law that will prevent the next Sandy Hook and sign me up as a husband and father," Gowdy said, "...and I'll give up any other right I have." - Trey Gowdy

Not helpful Trey. They will make promises that "this" new law is the one that will work. I'm not giving up my right to self-defense and to oppose tyrannical govt so that you can feel safe!!!

 

[Camelfilter]

Mr Gowdy seems to have forgotten that rights are not his to give, or to take away. They are natural and inalienable.

 

[bbbass]

Here ya go:

"Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl told reporters at a news conference that 24-year-old xxxxxxx xxxxx, who was armed with a .223-caliber rifle, had a gun that was modified in a way he felt was "fundamentally problematic."

 

[bbbass]

Mr Gowdy seems to have forgotten that rights are not his to give, or to take away. They are natural and inalienable.

I liked him a few years back, he had that tough prosecuter thing going, but I wound up disappointed in him. Now I see him more clearly.

 

[bbbass]

Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) said mass shooting attacks are "absolutely terrorism," and he is now advocating both universal background checks for all gun transactions and raising the age to 21 for the purchase of all guns, not just pistols.

 

[Geardo]

I liked him a few years back, he had that tough prosecuter thing going, but I wound up disappointed in him. Now I see him more clearly.

He was the dog in the dog and pony show.

 

[bbbass]

We are going to lose something this time/again, I just don't know what yet. Probably National UBC if Trump gets behind it.

 

[jackrv]

At the risk of any potential ridicule, here are my current bullitt points concerning a National discussion on mass shootings. While the list is not exhaustive and could be either expanded or contracted, it seems reasonable to have a place to start a discussion.

Givens:

• We have a right to bear arms as established by the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
• Said right to bear arms is a personal one and as such should not be infringed.
• We acknowledge there is currently a problem with mass shootings even if we differ as to how widespread the problem is based upon the events occurring on a per capita basis

Discussion Points for helping to solve or reduce the problem of mass shootings:

1.) Establish a national background check registry to be used in all States when purchasing firearms. Have exemptions for persons with all valid FFL licenses who have already been reviewed by AFT. Institute on a going forward basis with so called grandfathering of existing owned firearms.

2.) Work to abolish so called "gun free zones." It has been shown in the preponderance of mass shootings that they have occurred in gun free zones where citizens have no way to fight back unless law enforcement is present. In those shootings in non-gun free zones, it is demonstrable that the number of mass casualties events and casualties themselves are reduced when armed citizens are possibly or actually present

3.) Pass a National CCW law that would standardize and allow reciprocity in all States

4.) Establish a minimum 72 hour moratorium on anything beyond the bare minimum of information concerning mass shootings. It is demonstrable that in the rush to fill air-time or print media often initial information on mass shooting events is wrong and/or incomplete. Additionally, the notoriety of the time spent on mass shootings following an event often seems to cause secondary copy-cat events.

5.) Prohibit political fund raising based on the events of mass shootings. The ethics of doing so raises the question of why should individuals or parties that so ever seek to help solve the problem if they have a financial incentive not to.

6.) Promote the enforcement of existing laws. Adding an ever-thickening cover of new laws based on emotional reactions without current enforcement is counterproductive. (Example – Parkland High School in Florida)

7.) Have a discussion concerning the mental health component of gun ownership. Perhaps this is where so called "Red Flag" laws would be discussed. Note: any enactment should have clearly defined thresholds for enactment and due recourse for abuses or restoration of rights.

8.) Have a discussion of the effects of prescription of psychotropic drugs and gun ownership. It seems that this subject is often ignored in national discussions even though it is present in many cases.

9.) Have a discussion concerning the effects of violent media – violent movies, video games, etc. (If my 18 – now 21 – year old cannot use their right to purchase and bare arms, what if any restrictions should be on purchasing and viewing other materials?)

10.) Have a discussion as to whether or not there are threshold issues – and if so enumerate them -above which personal rights to bare arms can be infringed either on a temporary or permanent basis

11.) Remove inaccurate "triggering" phrases such as "assault weapon" or "assault rifle" from the discussion lexicon. Replace them with accurate names and descriptions of functionality.

12.) Allow for gun safety education/curriculum in schools if endorsed by local communities and school districts (Note: if you can talk about pregnancy, condoms, lifestyles, etc, should you be able to talk about firearms?)


So what say you? What could you support or add - and why? Likewise, what is non negotiable or needs to be removed - and why?

When passing gun restrictions / bans, do NOT exempt police or military. They are not any better, sometimes worse, than the rest of us.

Jack

 

[308]

What do you think of this?

"In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings," Tyson wrote Sunday afternoon. He then compared the "average" number of people who die in other ways across "any 48hrs."
"On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose… 500 to Medical errors, 300 to the Flu, 250 to Suicide, 200 to Car Accidents, 40 to Homicide via Handgun," he reasoned. "Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data."

Neil deGrasse Tyson faces backlash for controversial tweet about recent mass shootings

The astrophysicist tweeted that, "often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data" in the wake of two mass shooting that left at least 29 dead

www.cbsnews.com

Tyson is correct in this case. But let's be real, nothing is more sexy for MSM than a white boy shooting up a bunch of innocents which leads to the predictable outcome of politicians regurgitating the more gun control mantra while the shallow thinking social media feelers gobble up the gorp and rant about a subject for which they have little understanding or first hand knowledge. Better ban those things that go up and while we are at it, turn a blind eye to the following (because it is just negros shooting negros)...did that trigger someone?

Chicago
Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 278
Shot & Wounded: 1365
Total Shot: 1643
Total Homicides: 305

 

[bbbass]

This morning a Calif politician, I forget who, was saying that he is proud of their gun laws leading the way to prevent these kinds of mass shootings..... Wait a minute, did he think we already forgot about Gilroy and the Borderline Bar & Grill?????????

 

[ZigZagZeke]

We have to do something...

You are damn right we have to do something....
The passing of more bans , requirements , restrictions and the like...ain't the "something" that is going to work.

Just what that "something" actually is ...I don't truly know ...
What I do know is that yet another spin on the same solutions that have been adopted , and failed in the past , will not work.

Its just as I have said in a different thread...
A circle jerk of blame and ban....lots of motion , some self gratification , 'cause I did something...then back around again...'cause nothing was really accomplished.
Andy

I spoke from the pews in church Sunday morning. I said, "I can tell you who the next mass shooter will be. He will a white male. He will be 20 years old. He will be living with relatives or friends because he can't support himself. He is a high school or college drop out. He has no significant other, no job, no future, and no hope. He is angry and suicidal.

Legislating against his weapon of choice is like putting a band aid on a heart attack victim. It's highly visible and easy to do, and it makes us feel better, but it does nothing to address the actual problem.

Our consumerist, "me first" society has told this young male that he is a loser. If he goes to a church he's been told that he's a failure because God doesn't love him, and it's his own fault for being who he is. If he doesn't go to church he's heard that his life is a disaster because he simply hasn't tried hard enough. No wonder he's angry and suicidal.

He's been told that the measure of success is a lucrative career, an attractive and desirable significant other, a luxurious home, and a shiny new car, and all he has to do is try a little harder. He sees that there are no decent jobs. He sees that he can't afford an education. He sees that he has nothing that will ever allow him to support a marriage, a home, or a family. He has no hope of ever achieving any of this. Our media has shown him these "truths", in advertising, in commentary, in the news, and in sitcoms. Everywhere he turns he sees that white males are ridiculed as failures, or feared as monsters.

My query is, what are we doing, as a society, as Christians, as people sitting in this room, to eliminate the hopelessness and treat the anger that our society engenders in those who 'fail' at life at 20 years old?"

 

[308]

I spoke from the pews in church Sunday morning. I said, "I can tell you who the next mass shooter will be. He will a white male. He will be 20 years old. He will be living with relatives or friends because he can't support himself. He is a high school or college drop out. He has no significant other, no job, no future, and no hope. He is angry and suicidal.

Legislating against his weapon of choice is like putting a band aid on a heart attack victim. It's highly visible and easy to do, and it makes us feel better, but it does nothing to address the actual problem.

Our consumerist, "me first" society has told this young male that he is a loser. If he goes to a church he's been told that he's a failure because God doesn't love him, and it's his own fault for being who he is. If he doesn't go to church he's heard that his life is a disaster because he simply hasn't tried hard enough. No wonder he's angry and suicidal.

He's been told that the measure of success is a lucrative career, an attractive and desirable significant other, a luxurious home, and a shiny new car, and all he has to do is try a little harder. He sees that there are no decent jobs. He sees that he can't afford an education. He sees that he has nothing that will ever allow him to support a marriage, a home, or a family. He has no hope of ever achieving any of this. Our media has shown him these "truths", in advertising, in commentary, in the news, and in sitcoms. Everywhere he turns he sees that white males are ridiculed as failures, or feared as monsters.

My query is, what are we doing, as a society, as Christians, as people sitting in this room, to eliminate the hopelessness and treat the anger that our society engenders in those who 'fail' at life at 20 years old?"

We cannot fix the world, but we can nurture those little eternal souls God has put in our hands.

 

[FullMetalJerk]