This is why I often take a shotgun with me when checking on outside noises...

[Flopsweat]

While I would be "leery" of having one as a neighbor I have always found the top predators to be majestic creatures. The cat had to eat or starve. He took down a very large animal compared to his size so I can see why he was reluctant to leave his meal. Humans often choose to live in an area these animals live. If they do they need to take some care in how they live since they may find themselves interacting with the critters that live near them. If I lived there I would have drug the animal farther away from my home, taken some for me and left the rest for the cat to come back later and fill up on.The cat well fed is not likely to eat something you do not want him to kill.

He may have been a little winded too. Must have taken a lot of effort.

 

[Zechariah]

While I would be "leery" of having one as a neighbor I have always found the top predators to be majestic creatures. The cat had to eat or starve. He took down a very large animal compared to his size so I can see why he was reluctant to leave his meal. Humans often choose to live in an area these animals live. If they do they need to take some care in how they live since they may find themselves interacting with the critters that live near them. If I lived there I would have drug the animal farther away from my home, taken some for me and left the rest for the cat to come back later and fill up on.The cat well fed is not likely to eat something you do not want him to kill.

They are a beautiful creature but they are just so damn sneaky. Like the way that thing just slipped off. It's always on my mind walking out of the woods in the dark.

 

[Alexx1401]

They are a beautiful creature but they are just so damn sneaky. Like the way that thing just slipped off. It's always on my mind walking out of the woods in the dark.

Yep, long ago Wife and I lived in the SW. Out in the country so lots of wildlife. One night I hear the distinctive sound of Rattlesnake. Look out the window our cat has it cornered in front at a decorative wall. I thought it must be a baby and go out with shovel and flashlight. Get close it's more like 3 or 4 footer. Start looking at shovel, snake, wondering if I want to do this or not. Fire Dpt used to come deal with them with those CO2 extinguishers but all I could think of is if it gets away before they get here I will be forever wondering where the hell it is on my property. So got the wife out with a gun, said I am going to step up and take a swing, if I miss with the shovel shoot the sucker I got him clean in half but damn that one shook me a LONG time. Wondering if there was one that size were there more on my land out there. Made going under the house for anything all kinds of fun

 

[OldBroad44]

Why did elk run to porch? My guess is that the elk considered that close to human house dangerous or uncomfortable for both elk and cougar. And in ultimate duress he ran right up onto porch, figuring he was in more danger from cougar than humans and cougar may not follow him there. Had human gone out onto porch when elk first clattered onto porch it might have worked. Are animals smart enough to do that? Something I saw in my duck flock suggests that they are. And so do events where a wild animal may seem to ask a human for help when it has no other workable choice.

I once saw one of my ducks do something similar that involved that level of thinking. My flock was composed of three subflocks, each representing a group of age mates that had grown up together, and were added to main flock as soon as they were big enough to use adult duck size food and water buckets. Each subflock tended to keep together and move around together. They might settle down adjacent to each other but didn't intermingle. When one duck found itself in the wrong flock it was clearly socially uncomfortable, and it got out of there and back to its buddies.

The most recently added baby flock was a mix of Anconas, Khaki Campbells, and Welsh Harkequins. They hadnt got their dominance heirarchy within the baby flock entirely figured out yet. The Anconas were bigger and more powerful. However, they are very mellow about their dominance heirarchy. Nobody excludes anyone from anything because of it. They quickly sorted things out with a few companionable neck wrestling contests. The weaker duck would signal acceptance of his loss by a symbolic half step backward. Ancona ducks of all dominance levels share water and food buckets and even nests companionably. The Khaki Campbell's take their dominance hierarchy much more seriously. Frequently the dominant duck doesn't let subordinates drink or eat until she is through. They often actually bite each other and hang on when establishing dominance. And the fight ends with the loser being chased several feet. The Anconas have such a gentle approach to dominance that it took the Campbell's a while to figure out they weren't dominant to any Ancona. But they were still sorting out the dominance among themselves. The Ancona duckings tend to consider the battles of the Campbell's and Harlequins over the top, and will break them up when they go on too long or if anyone cries/peeps loudly. Campbell's tend to get excited by the battles and join in.

So one day two Campbells in the baby flock got into a huge fight and a bigger Ancona duckling in the baby flock brought his neck down on top of their beaks and broke it up. But then the two Campbells turned on and attacked the Ancona and two more Campbell duckings joined in. And the four Campbells bit and hung onto and all over the Ancona, so he was helpless to fight. It must have been painful.

In desperation, the Ancona duckling, dragging the four slightly smaller Campbells, ran over and right into the middle of the most senior duck subflock and stood there. In under a second the Campbell ducklings, apparently realizing where they were, all dropped off and ran back to the baby flock. The Ancona ducking then pulled himself together and walked, not ran, with dignity, back to the baby flock.

 

[OldBroad44]

Yep, long ago Wife and I lived in the SW. Out in the country so lots of wildlife. One night I hear the distinctive sound of Rattlesnake. Look out the window our cat has it cornered in front at a decorative wall. I thought it must be a baby and go out with shovel and flashlight. Get close it's more like 3 or 4 footer. Start looking at shovel, snake, wondering if I want to do this or not. Fire Dpt used to come deal with them with those CO2 extinguishers but all I could think of is if it gets away before they get here I will be forever wondering where the hell it is on my property. So got the wife out with a gun, said I am going to step up and take a swing, if I miss with the shovel shoot the sucker I got him clean in half but damn that one shook me a LONG time. Wondering if there was one that size were there more on my land out there. Made going under the house for anything all kinds of fun

I normally leave poisonous snakes alone. But not in my yard or campsite. Don't want to step on it or have it bite dog or livestock back when I had them. When hiking I always just politely went around poisonous snakes But as far as campsites, I've heard too many stories about rattlers crawling on top of people in sleeping bags for the night. They like the warmth apparently. But I prefer not to have anyone in my bed unless I invited them.

 

[Flopsweat]

I normally leave poisonous snakes alone. But not in my yard or campsite. Don't want to step on it or have it bite dog or livestock back when I had them. When hiking I always just politely went around poisonous snakes But as far as campsites, I've heard too many stories about rattlers crawling on top of people in sleeping bags for the night. They like the warmth apparently. But I prefer not to have anyone in my bed unless I invited them.

Yeah, I learned that lesson in college.

 

[Zechariah]

I visited my brother in New Mexico this year I was totally not prepared for all the creepy crawlers. It had me on edge so much I was tucking my pants into my socks when I walked through his lawn. At night you could actually spot light spiders (big suckers) and they freaked me out. It's for real there got to watch you steps.

 

[Certaindeaf]

When I go out on the porch to rassle a snake is why all my shotguns have slings. Or I just put a j-frame in my robe pocket.

 

[Flopsweat]

When I go out on the porch to rassle a snake is why all my shotguns have slings. Or I just put a j-frame in my robe pocket.

Snakeshot in a revolver is a wonderful thing.

 

[FJ40Bruiser]

Gotta carry on the trails

 

[Certaindeaf]

Gotta carry on the trails

Indeedy.

Thread 'Mountain Lion Defensive Pistol' https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/mountain-lion-defensive-pistol.215940/

 

[Alexx1401]

Indeedy.

Thread 'Mountain Lion Defensive Pistol' https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/mountain-lion-defensive-pistol.215940/

That cat was hungry and was sizing him up as a meal.

 

[Certaindeaf]

That cat was hungry and was sizing him up as a meal.

Wearing balls of yarn on your head is not advisable either.

 

[Member 52301]

I have an air rifle, and I pee frequently . Seems I have the tools to play this game.

We have a winner!



Old Lady Cate

 

[OldBroad44]

Snakeshot in a revolver is a wonderful thing.

Actually it should be pretty easy to shoot a snake in the brain with an ordinary bullet at a distance of ten feet. I used to do "snake drills" of shooting at dime size rings on paper plates at distances from six feet up. Many people can't do that because their handguns are sighted in for 50 feet, 25 yards, or 50 yards, and are low enough to miss a snake head or brain at ten feet. And they don't practice closer distances. The trick is figuring out the right amount of holdover for each distance that is, how much of the front sight you should raise over the back sight in the sight picture to make the bullet go to point of aim at various distances. This assumes full size sights such as the adjustable sights on full size revolvers. The amount of holdover required to be dead on depends on gun, barrel length, sights, where sighted in, and specific load. With my 6" .357s and .44 mags, I normally sighted them for 50 yards being the top of the ballistics curve. Then I used holdover at distances below and above that.

Generally the way it worked with full loads with these revolvers is at about 6' from muzzle to target it took holding over half the front sight to be dead on. At about ten feet the holdover was about a quarter of the front sight. At 15' holdover was "a bit". At 25' it was " just a shade". At anything between 30 feet to presumably about 60 yards it was close enough to dead on so that no holdover was necessary. In theory I would need to start using holdover again at distances beyond that, but since my practice areas were never that long and I couldn't hit such small things at distances beyond that, that was good enough.

For poisonous snake defense I figured that if I see the snake ten feet away or more and its not in my yard or campsite I can just go around. Live and let live, I figure. At very close (within striking) distance the practical thing is to leap out of the strike zone. If the snake is somewhere you need to shoot it or a snake dinner is of interest, 10' away is a good distance to shoot from using the necessary holdover and shooting for the brain. I've practiced such stuff because I used to live where there were poisonous snakes. But I've never actually killed one. And there are no poisonous snakes where I live or have hiked or camped in Oregon.

Even in snake country, carrying the gun with the first two rounds being snake loads never appealed. It would mean needing to fire two useless rounds before being able to defend myself properly from a bad human, bear, or cougar. And the odds of having to defend myself against a bad human, are way higher than the odds of needing to defend myself against a snake.

One reason CZ P07s have started to appeal to me is I'm attracted to the big suppressor ready sights. I may or may not ever get a suppressor. But I'm thinking those tall sights would be easier for me to see than most dinky low semiautomatic sights, and would probably be as easy to do holdover with as revolver sights.

 

[Flopsweat]

Actually it should be pretty easy to shoot a snake in the brain with an ordinary bullet at a distance of ten feet. I used to do "snake drills" of shooting at dime size rings on paper plates at distances from six feet up. Many people can't do that because their handguns are sighted in for 50 feet, 25 yards, or 50 yards, and are low enough to miss a snake head or brain at ten feet. And they don't practice closer distances. The trick is figuring out the right amount of holdover for each distance that is, how much of the front sight you should raise the back sight in the sight picture to make the bullet go to point of aim at various distances. This assumes full size sights such as the adjustable sights on full size revolvers. The amount of holdover required to be dead on depends on gun, barrel length, sights, where sighted in, and specific load. With my 6" .357s and .44 mags, I normally sighted them for 50 yards being the top of the ballistics curve. Then I used holdover at distances below and above that.

Generally the way it worked with full loads with these revolvers is at about 6' from muzzle to target it took holding over half the front sight to be dead on. At about ten feet the holdover was about a quarter of the front sight. At 15' holdover was "a bit". At 25' it was " just a shade". At anything between 30 feet to presumably about 60 yards it was close enough to dead on so that no holdover was necessary. In theory I would need to start using holdover again at distances beyond that, but since my practice areas were never that long and I couldn't hit such small things at distances beyond that, that was good enough.

For poisonous snake defense I figured that if I see the snake ten feet away or more and its not in my yard or campsite I can just go around. Live and let live, I figure. At very close (within striking) distance the practical thing is to leap out of the strike zone. If the snake is somewhere you need to shoot it or a snake dinner is of interest, 10' away is a good distance to shoot from using the necessary holdover and shooting for the brain. I've practiced such stuff because I used to live where there were poisonous snakes. But I've never actually killed one. And there are no poisonous snakes where I live or have hiked or camped in Oregon.

Even in snake country, carrying the gun with the first two rounds being snake loads never appealed. It would mean needing to fire two useless rounds before being able to defend myself properly from a bad human, bear, or cougar. And the odds of having to defend myself against a bad human, are way higher than the odds of needing to defend myself against a snake.

One reason CZ P07s have started to appeal to me is I'm attracted to the big suppressor ready sights. I may or may not ever get a suppressor. But I'm thinking those tall sights would be easier for me to see than most dinky low semiautomatic sights, and would probably be as easy to do holdover with.

Yeah but I just don't shoot that many snakes.

 

[Alexx1401]

Actually it should be pretty easy to shoot a snake in the brain with an ordinary bullet at a distance of ten feet.

From what I see at the range there are a LOT of people who can not do this, at least not without multiple tries, and that would be if the snake held perfectly still and did not move
Below is a sample of something I see a LOT. Guy was at about 15 ft, he was not firing fast. He made one hit on the bad guy, 3 on the hostage, couple more missed both.

 

[OldBroad44]

Yeah but I just don't shoot that many snakes.

Being able to hit small things at close ranges applies to more than just snakes. If you are working in the garden and have a gopher pfkb!em, you might be able to hit it in the head if you wait near a burrow where the gopher is actively working and pop it in the head as its head transiently appears while it pushes dirt from burrow. Since my superpower is my hearing and I can often hear a gopher working in its burrow underground from 20 feet away or more, that would be practical gopher control wherever the garden or field was somewhere I could shoot. A shotgun is more practical but is a b!tch to carry while gardening. The gophers seem to do most of their repair and extension of tunnels between about 8 and 10, when its also most comfortable to garden.

When I had geese I butchered them by shooting the chosen goose dinner in the brain from about ten feet. This saved me and the goose the emotional trauma of catching and slitting their throats while alive.

Sometimes you can get shots at rabbits that are within 20 feet, and its nice to be able to pop them in the head with your carry gun instead of wasting meat. I once shot a pond turtle in the head and had turtle soup on an outing when trail food had got very boring. Even a big garter snake could add a lot to a stew if you're hungry or bored enough with trail food, and there are some areas where every path is full of garter snakes sunning themselves in early morning. There was a big gopher snake who used to sun herself on my back porch, but it wasn't SHTF and my yard had gophers and the snake and I had an understanding. I would sit next to her and drink my coffee in the morning while she warmed up enough to get going after gophers. We became acquainted when she used to sun herself on the front path. I've spent enough time in the south so I usually notice snakes from far away. So I would say a quiet greeting so as to not surprise her and politely leave the path and walk around. So she had learned to trust me not to step on her or do anything else clumsy or rude. It was kinda fun drinking my coffee and sitting just a foot away from such a big wild snake who clearly knew me personally and trusted me.

Squirrel heads are small too, but the only squirrels that have ever let me get that close are grey squirrels in parks.

Duck flock predators include lots of critters such as possums and racoons. If it was SHTF and I had ducks and was going to eat the possums and coons I'd want to shoot them in the head so as to avoid spoiling meat. Since it wasn't SHTF and the possums and coons were probably eating mostly commercial dog and cat food in neighbors yards I shot the predators in the chest and carried them by pitchfork to the far part of my yard and left them for the vultures.

The first time I went handgun hunting for deer I spotted a forked horn when I checked my backtrail. It was about 60 yards off and concealed behind brush except for neck and head. I wasn't sure I wanted a mere forked horn. So I figured I'd see how close I could get taking a zig zag path toward it and pretending I was searching/foraging for something on the ground. If it ran I wouldn't mind. It was the first day of deer season. It was looking right at me. But I pretended I didn't see it and my Colt .357 was concealed. On the third zig I was 12 feet from the deer, at which point it looked a lot bigger and more like a very fine tender delicious animal, and one a whole lot handier for me to carry alone than anything bigger. So I turned, pulled the revolver, and shot the deer in the brain using slightly under a quarter of the front sight as holdover. Sure doesn't give ya much room for bragging, though, when you shoot a forked horn from the grand distance of 12'. It was delicious though.

 

[OldBroad44]

From what I see at the range there are a LOT of people who can not do this, at least not without multiple tries, and that would be if the snake held perfectly still and did not move
Below is a sample of something I see a LOT. Guy was at about 15 ft, he was not firing fast. He made one hit on the bad guy, 3 on the hostage, couple more missed both.

View attachment 1104849

Yeah. You have to be a pretty decent shooter before its any use practicing shooting dime size objects at close range with a handgun. However many folks who ARE good shots can't do it either, either because their shooting is all on ranges where you don't have the option, or they are only thinking in terms of bigger targets. And bullseye shooters may aim at the bottom of the black bullseye with sights adjusted to hit x ring when so aimed, an added complication. I always adjust my sights to hit point of aim. And use white targets such as magic marker rings on paper plates. Its too hard to see black sights against black bullseyes. (I recall a friend looking at my pile of shot-up paper plates one day and commenting "Well, if you ever have to defend yourself against an attack by a hoard of paper plates, you're good to go. But against an attack by little rings, not so much.")

When I took the NRA version of the course that qualified us for an Oregon CHP right after Oregon laws for CHPs became must issue, it was a 3-day course, supposedly for experienced shooters only, about half classroom and written testing and half shooting. All .22, 50' range. We could use our own guns for only the first day. There were about 20 .22s of all qualities and action types. There were about 25 people in the course. I was a bit apprehensive since my eyes were already deteriorated from prime and I hadn't shot .22 in years. And I have trouble seeing dinky small sights and own only handguns with full size sights. And I'm a competitive cuss.

The first shooting exercise was 11 rounds put into a completely blank piece of paper from the bench, 50'. Stable position but not quite bench rest as there was nothing to support gun. I put 10 rounds in a half inch circle in the exact center of the blank page, with one shot a quarter inch away for a total 11-shot group of 3/4 inch. Nothing compared to competitive shooters, but I was pleased given vision that had never been competition grade and no bullseye on the paper and a production grade gun, though my own Ruger Mark II with 5 1/2" bull barrel. (When I handed in my target the instructor grabbed it out of the pile and said "You've done this before!" ) The most interesting thing was of the 25 supposedly experienced shooters, only one other had a target with all the shots on the paper, a group of about four inches. The rest all missed the target entirely part of the time and didn't have anything one would call a group with the rest. I think one or two people never hit the 8.5 x 11" piece of paper at all. And this was from a stable position. With their own guns and both hands. And these people were all taking the 3-day course for experienced shooters in lieu of the full week course for beginners. This group would have excluded people with police or military training, as that experience qualified them for an Oregon CHP without this course. Nevertheless, its obvious that most people who considered themselves experienced shooters in this context and were going to end up with a CHP can't even hit a 8.5 x 11" target at 50' reliably even from a stable position.

It was an interesting course. I turned out to be better with the crappy .22s with dinky sights I couldn't really see better than I thought. I could at least keep all the rounds on the piece of paper, even offhand with one hand, even when I couldn't see the sights at all. That was useful to find out. However, they were all full size guns. If there had been any small or light guns it would have been a different story.

 

[Alexx1401]

Yeah. You have to be a pretty decent shooter before its any use practicing shooting dime size objects at close range with a handgun. However many folks who ARE good shots can't do it either, either because their shooting is all on ranges where you don't have the option, or they are only thinking in terms of bigger targets. And bullseye shooters may aim at the bottom of the black bullseye with sights adjusted to hit x ring when so aimed, an added complication. I always adjust my sights to hit point of aim. And use white targets such as magic marker rings on paper plates. Its too hard to see black sights against black bullseyes. (I recall a friend looking at my pile of shot-up paper plates one day and commenting "Well, if you ever have to defend yourself against an attack by a hoard of paper plates, you're good to go. But against an attack by little rings, not so much.")

When I took the NRA version of the course that qualified us for an Oregon CHP right after Oregon laws for CHPs became must issue, it was a 3-day course, supposedly for experienced shooters only, about half classroom and written testing and half shooting. All .22, 50' range. We could use our own guns for only the first day. There were about 20 .22s of all qualities and action types. There were about 25 people in the course. I was a bit apprehensive since my eyes were already deteriorated from prime and I hadn't shot .22 in years. And I have trouble seeing dinky small sights and own only handguns with full size sights. And I'm a competitive cuss.

The first shooting exercise was 11 rounds put into a completely blank piece of paper from the bench, 50'. Stable position but not quite bench rest as there was nothing to support gun. I put 10 rounds in a half inch circle in the exact center of the blank page, with one shot a quarter inch away for a total 11-shot group of 3/4 inch. Nothing compared to competitive shooters, but I was pleased given vision that had never been competition grade and no bullseye on the paper and a production grade gun, though my own Ruger Mark II with 5 1/2" bull barrel. (When I handed in my target the instructor grabbed it out of the pile and said "You've done this before!" ) The most interesting thing was of the 25 supposedly experienced shooters, only one other had a target with all the shots on the paper, a group of about four inches. The rest all missed the target entirely part of the time and didn't have anything one would call a group with the rest. I think one or two people never hit the 8.5 x 11" piece of paper at all. And this was from a stable position. With their own guns and both hands. And these people were all taking the 3-day course for experienced shooters in lieu of the full week course for beginners. This group would have excluded people with police or military training, as that experience qualified them for an Oregon CHP without this course. Nevertheless, its obvious that most people who considered themselves experienced shooters in this context and were going to end up with a CHP can't even hit a 8.5 x 11" target at 50' reliably even from a stable position.

It was an interesting course. I turned out to be better with the crappy .22s with dinky sights I couldn't really see better than I thought. I could at least keep all the rounds on the piece of paper, even offhand with one hand, even when I couldn't see the sights at all. That was useful to find out. However, they were all full size guns. If there had been any small or light guns it would have been a different story.

The one BIG difference with women is I have yet to see one "claim" she was "expert" and not be able to shoot. I have lost track of the men who would talk what a great shot they were who could not stay on paper when you get to the range with them. If some gal tells me she can shoot I tend to believe they can. When some guy tells me he is a great shot I tend to need to see it first hand before I take it with a lot of salt