The unanswerable, 7.62 vs 5.56

[bradsteen]

Realistically what could you do with a 308 in that situation that you couldn't do with a 5.56? My vote would be to standardize on caliber and magazine type. If your wife's AR is 5.56 and your AR pistol is 5.56, I don't see the point in adding a different caliber and mag type to the mix, especially at the ranges you described. Besides, having to actually use it would be a high impact but VERY low probability event, so no need to overthink it.

 

[titsonritz]

To throw a real wrench in the debate...

Some NIJ "Level 3" plates cannot stand up to M193 55gr FMJs from 20" rifle barrels; and some cannot stand up to the military M855A1 EPR ammo (different from the standard SS109/M855 ammo), these are usually either steel or PolyEthylene hard armor; but the NIJ Level 3 protocol stops standard M80 ball ammo (7.62x51) going at standard speeds at 15 meters.

And this is not even going against the relatively exotic M955 tungsten core armor piercing 5.56 ammo, which I think may also defeat ceramic NIJ Level 4 in some circumstances. (It's supposed to be proof against at least one steel core AP2 30-06 ammo). I do know the WW2 German tungsten core armor piercing 8mm Mauser ammo did test and penetrated NIJ certified Level 4 ceramics at 15 meters.

It's basically a blunt knife versus an ice pick.

Shoot them in the face, no man or beast likes that and there's no armor to deal with.

I have both, 5.56 & 7.62 NATO as well as 7.62x39 & 12ga.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Shoot them in the face, no man or beast likes that and there's no armor to deal with.

I have both, 5.56 & 7.62 NATO as well as 7.62x39.

Groin/lower torso. More mass, more arteries, and no one likes being shot in the dick

 

[titsonritz]

Groin/lower torso. More mass, more arteries, and no one likes being shot in the dick

Doesn't have the light switch though, which means still potential active threat.

Shots to the Pelvis

8/23/11 Dr. Fackler has written the following discussion on shots to the pelvis: There are no doubts regarding serious mortality rates with pelvic wounds, the issue is whether wounds to the pelvis offer rapid enough incapacitation to reliably stop an adversary during a lethal force...

pistol-forum.com

 

[CamoDeafie]

Doesn't have the light switch though, which means still potential active threat.

Shots to the Pelvis

8/23/11 Dr. Fackler has written the following discussion on shots to the pelvis: There are no doubts regarding serious mortality rates with pelvic wounds, the issue is whether wounds to the pelvis offer rapid enough incapacitation to reliably stop an adversary during a lethal force...

pistol-forum.com

This is true but note that I also stated "lower torso". Most plates do not reach the navel from the top sternal notch, so there are significantly more mass in the guy and pelvic regions with which to hit. The head on the other side, is a significantly smaller target, and motion makes it relatively difficult to hit, even with a rifle from an offhand position under stress.
Simply aiming below the plate on the torso, you have more opportunities to hit the main artery and spine, not to mention a gut shot can be a death sentence if medical assistance is not immediately available. But same can be said for pelvic shots too, though harder to immediately incapacitate compared to below plate or above plate.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Something to consider here....

A fella who is a threat...and actively trying to do you in...
Ain't gonna present a nice classic "target silhouette".

You may have to take the shot that you have versus the one you want or have practiced on.
Bullet selection and bullet placement will have more to do with stopping a threat , than whatever caliber is used.
Andy

 

[CamoDeafie]

Something to consider here....

A fella who is a threat...and actively trying to do you in...
Ain't gonna present a nice classic "target silhouette".

You may have to take the shot that you have versus the one you want or have practiced on.
Bullet selection and bullet placement will have more to do with stopping a threat , than whatever caliber is used.
Andy

That's why everyone should EDC a grenade launcher

 

[Juniper9mm]

I was playing this game a few years ago, but then realized I was again falling into one of my academic little traps which I was prone to create to purchase another rifle. I had an FAL and a PTR, and still miss those rifles, also the Sebu 50 BMG, FN FNC, and other C3 stuff, but fortunatley 08 relieved me of them. I built a new collection around 2014 and only have one larger capacity 7.62 in 54R which is part of my coldwar west vs. east collection. This allows me to shoot cheaper 5.56 and x39 in 7.62

 

[P7M13]

To me, this isn't a question. Bring both.
M855/SS109 steel core for antifa and the like, 308 for it's bigness.
Also add a shockwave with 00 buck and several side arms. That should cover >90% of your contingencies.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Check out "steel" tab at bottom of page for fbi penetration test of steel/gel. 24" with .308 barrier blind rounds. That could come in handy. Especially with fragmentation/deflection of vehicles.

Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Rifle Details

See Federal Premium LE Rifle details

le.vistaoutdoor.com

 

[40nascar]

We travel about 6 months out of the year. If things were to turn terrible, the goal would be to get home.

Mini 14 for the win ( Ban state friendly).

 

[40nascar]

To me, this isn't a question. Bring both.
M855/SS109 steel core for antifa and the like, 308 for it's bigness.
Also add a shockwave with 00 buck and several side arms. That should cover >90% of your contingencies.

M855 is too kind for Blamtifa. It will pass through without much damage ( if it doesn't hit a vital organ). I would use 64 gr speer gold dot soft points, to tear the chit out of those Donkeys.

 

[1911Fanatic]

Even considering the difference in what .308 will do vs 5.56 to vehicles and other barriers?

You could use M855A1, at least for plate armor. Wouldn't be my first choice to put a hole in an engine block though. And, you will need the proper mags so you don't wreck your gun during feeding. And it only works in short barreled guns like 14.5 inch or maybe 11.5, etc. With a 20 inch barrel you lose velocity as the gas pressure drops as the projectile moves down the longer barrel.

From a shorter barrel, the round gets about 4K feet/sec. And only about the same as standard 855 green tips out of an 18 or 20 inch barrel.

It it were me, I would get a bolt action, scoped 30-06 if I needed to disable a vehicle. I would use mil surp M92 AP that is readily available. It costs about the same per round as premium hunting ammo. Plus the 30-06 is great for hunting with a wide choice of rounds.

The M855A1 will punch through a half inch steel plate. But the M92 AP will do it from a greater distance. If SHTF and I had to take out a vehicle I would use my Smith Corona 1903A3 with the M92 AP. Because that is the 30-06 rifle that I happen to have.

 

[1911Fanatic]

Depends on the mob a mob of police officers? Well........

Or Chinese Paratroopers….

 

[RustyNail]

The perfect solution is....7.62x39. Right in the middle of both rounds. Significantly more penetration than a 223 however not as heavy as 308. My brother and I had an old junk car we put through the paces and tried various tests... the 7.62x39 is an incredible round for its size. First we tried 223 FMJ and it was unable to shoot through an engine block....7.62x39 shot right through it and out the oil pan on the bottom. Although its not quite as accurate as 223, I can consistently hit a 6inch gong at 300 yards open sites with my Hungarian FEG SA85m. I have excellent vision 20/10 and I know this isnt the standard but a high quality AK with good ammo is extremely lethal. Zero scope, zero optic. Now, if battles require longer shots than 300 yards, 308 is hands down the better option but daily carry would 100% be a quality AK and ammo.

 

[orygun]

Before I bought an AR I thought if I did, it would be a .308. Powah!
When I shot an AR-10 I thought it was heavy and had pretty hefty recoil. (actually, those are the nice words, I was not impressed)
Once I bought an AR, I realized I had no desire to own an AR10. Weight, cost, cost of ammo all figured in.

 

[monkeybutler]

Or Chinese Paratroopers….

Or an unruly box of Depends adult undergarments.

 

[P7M13]

Before I bought an AR I thought if I did, it would be a .308. Powah!
When I shot an AR-10 I thought it was heavy and had pretty hefty recoil. (actually, those are the nice words, I was not impressed)
Once I bought an AR, I realized I had no desire to own an AR10. Weight, cost, cost of ammo all figured in.

I agree, the weight is problematic. However, if you didn't like the recoil, the gas and ergos were wrong.

 

[orygun]

I agree, the weight is problematic. However, if you didn't like the recoil, the gas and ergos were wrong.

A few minutes before the gun was a single shot. The owner kept fussing with the adjustable gas block and then it worked, sorta. So, I'll go with the gassing being incorrect. However, it was a fairly expensive gun and new guns that don't work will never impress me.