terrorist attack vs. armed citezenry simulation....

[CoastRange57]

I don't need a study, or simulation, or approval to own a firearm - or any other weapon for that matter - it is my natural right.

I am sure everyone has seen this, but Uncle Ted agrees with you.

 

[Riot]

Most workplaces prohibit possession of "weapons", especially firearms. Possessing firearms on the premises is usually will not only result in you being terminated without notice, but also quite possibly being blacklisted with other potential employers. My employer is no different.

It would take me several minutes just to get to my vehicle, which is hundreds of yards away from my workplace.

An active shooter in my workplace means I would not be able to respond armed.

That does not mean you should just sit quietly and accept your situation either. Suggest an "active shooter" plan. Have employees wear ID cards on the outside and update (with a picture of their face) of anyone that is no longer allowed on the premise. Lock the doors and have an evacuation plan in place if you can.

I'm sure every employer has had a bad apple that has made their skin crawl to the point of trespassing charges or restraining orders if they've been around for more than a day...having said that, I don't care if you sell it as a fire safety precaution with a secondary exit (having everyone exit out of a different point than the main exit in the event the main exit is blocked or on fire....or if some nut is coming in that way with an AK-47).

You guys actually have it good...if you bring a firearm in and your employer catches wind about it what's the worse that they'll do? Ask you? Fire you? If I do, I'm brought up on charges! I get searched on the way to work and can be charged with a crime for bringing in any weapon or contraband...so I have to think about these "what if" scenarios all the time. Does that mean when I hear gunshots I'm going to just start making peace with my maker? Hardly...guns might not be allowed inside the prison...but that policy quickly changes when there's a nutbag inside the fence shooting people.

 

[CoastRange57]

I'm sure every employer has had a bad apple that has made their skin crawl to the point of trespassing charges or restraining orders if they've been around for more than a day

I did corporate turnarounds for a number of years. We did turn around's on troubled business's, mostly construction oriented. It involved terminating employments of a number of people sometimes. When we were going around the country, we hired local armed plains clothes security when we did the terminations, and usually kept them around for the time we were there. We took control of the companies for a few days, and when 3 no nonsense guys show up, you get their attention real fast.

Locally, I was hired to do "reorganizations" on 2 different business's. The inmates were running the asylum, the owners had lost control and direction. There was time theft, drug dealing, drug use despite drug testing policies, and on the job drinking at both companies. When we signed the contracts with them, I told them , " I carry a gun. My partner carries a gun, I have 2 tactical shotguns in our vehicles as well. This is non negotiable. " They were some what relieved knowing that was happening as we assembled our evidence, and then took out the trash. Some of the admin people were actually scared of some of these dirt bags.

Our process was very scripted, with the first round of trouble makers terminated, trespassed and escorted off the property. Once that happened, everybody started falling in line pretty quickly. But we never let our guard down for one minute. I had one person say he was going to come back and f us up, he ended up having a talk with the local sheriff a few minutes later.

Even in my current gigs, I at a minimum have a .380 and 2 spare mags on me, no one would ever know. As an independent contractor that is my right.

 

[Gunguy45]

2-4 trained guys with long guns vs me and my CCW?

Ya, I'm gonna die.

I'll take one or two of them with me, (If I'm lucky) but ya, I'm gonna die.

There are worse ways to die. and maybe the one or two guys I take to Hell with me will mean someone else lives.

But don't anyone kid yourselves. Outnumbered, PROBABLY out-trained and definitely out-gunned. You're not going to come out on top.

Again: There are worse ways to die. I just want these Jihadi bastards to know that there are people who WILL die, just for a chance to kill THEM. That might mean the difference between DOING and just talking.

All of us are going to die. Frankly, dying to save my fellow citizens from mass murder? that's a really GOOD way to die. See you Jihadi bubblegums? You aren't the only ones willing to die for something.

 

[mjbskwim]

Well we have a bunch of sheep running around the US right now.9/11 woke up New York for a minute,just like Charlie woke up the EU......for now.Leave them alone and they will forget,just like us.
So,if there are a couple terror attacks ,we will have casualties.But I believe they will go down with every attack.
We have to wake up and be ready.Unfortunately it may take some dead bodies to do that. But after a couple attacks,anyone even resembling these types will be suspect.
WE WILL PROFILE .Yeah terrible stuff I know.But don't think for a minute that there will be multiple 'successful ' attacks in the US of A
Talk to people out here and they are pissed and ready.A buddy said there will be a 'reaction' ,there always is

 

[The Heretic]

That does not mean you should just sit quietly and accept your situation either. Suggest an "active shooter" plan. Have employees wear ID cards on the outside and update (with a picture of their face) of anyone that is no longer allowed on the premise. Lock the doors and have an evacuation plan in place if you can.

Already done, and more. Not by me, by the employer.

It is interesting though, that they spend that time to plan for an "active shooter", but don't spend much time or effort to communicate about day to day work tasks.

 

[The Heretic]

The thing is, most of these attackers know they will die, usually these are suicide attacks, and they have the advantages of being armed, having at least a plan, and surprise, while going against unprepared unarmed people who don't expect to be attacked. So yes, there will be casualties.

Now if you asked me what would happen if ISIS decided to attack a USA region en masse like they are doing in Iraq, I would say they would quickly be wiped out, even if the military and police were not involved, and they know it. They talk big, but if they came up against the US one on one, they would run away like most bullies.

 

[Just Jim]

So the question seems to be, if you are only armed with a handgun how can you fight a well trained body armored heavily armed person or people set out to murder you and everyone else they can?

I think that the best you can do is fort up and wait for help just like the cops do. Take cover in a choke point and wait, they won't want to fight someone with a gun and will move on to murder those who are unarmed. Pick a good spot that you can shoot from a rest so you can hit in small groups and either aim for the head or aim for the testicles.

Just my thoughts but you should train to shoot in small groups now days with all the body armor out there. Plus it becomes important to carry a high cap shooter that groups really well. Terrorism has changed the way we should think, no longer are you armed just to protect yourself from a criminal.

JMO.

 

[mjbskwim]

So the question seems to be, if you are only armed with a handgun how can you fight a well trained body armored heavily armed person or people set out to murder you and everyone else they can?

I think that the best you can do is fort up and wait for help just like the cops do. Take cover in a choke point and wait, they won't want to fight someone with a gun and will move on to murder those who are unarmed. Pick a good spot that you can shoot from a rest so you can hit in small groups and either aim for the head or aim for the testicles.

Just my thoughts but you should train to shoot in small groups now days with all the body armor out there. Plus it becomes important to carry a high cap shooter that groups really well. Terrorism has changed the way we should think, no longer are you armed just to protect yourself from a criminal.

JMO.

The only way to stop these type of attacks would be with armed guards or cameras and someone monitoring the tv.
Of course you would have to do an assessment of the likelihood of your business being hit
In the US those who might be hit probably already have these things in place

 

[Koda]

So the question seems to be, if you are only armed with a handgun how can you fight a well trained body armored heavily armed person or people set out to murder you and everyone else they can?

I think that the best you can do is fort up and wait for help just like the cops do. Take cover in a choke point and wait, they won't want to fight someone with a gun and will move on to murder those who are unarmed. Pick a good spot that you can shoot from a rest so you can hit in small groups and either aim for the head or aim for the testicles.

Just my thoughts but you should train to shoot in small groups now days with all the body armor out there. Plus it becomes important to carry a high cap shooter that groups really well. Terrorism has changed the way we should think, no longer are you armed just to protect yourself from a criminal.

JMO.

I like this post because it emphasises advanced training and understanding the situation, not trying to play hero but being realistic about what one person can do when outgunned. As far as body armor and small groups, there is a technique called the Mozambique drill specifically designed to stop someone wearing body armour. Practice it.

 

[Koda]

overall I'm not worried about any invasions, I just thought it interesting the simulation results and wanted to see what others thought of it. People who CCW right now primarily are doing so for protection against crime, but it wouldn't surprise me if someday soon we see a number of random terrorist attacks in the States.

 

[Medic!]

So you made the choice to carry a gun. You don't know what situation you may face. You do know people use guns as much as 2.5 million times a year to defend themselves. About 7000 times a day.

Now someone say's you may face a scenario that will make your gun useless! Are guns pointless now?

 

[Pyro]

Most workplaces prohibit possession of "weapons", especially firearms. Possessing firearms on the premises is usually will not only result in you being terminated without notice, but also quite possibly being blacklisted with other potential employers. My employer is no different.

It would take me several minutes just to get to my vehicle, which is hundreds of yards away from my workplace.

An active shooter in my workplace means I would not be able to respond armed.

Just because your work place does not allow FIREARMS does not mean you need to be unarmed!!
Please think outside of the proverbial box and think of alternatives. A cane or walking stick close to your desk or work station. How about a can of WASP spray (+20 ft distance) instead of CS or mace (<10 feet). How about a cord with a heavy object attached to swing (ie. a slungshot) or maybe a length of chain. All of these things or other common items could be used to your advantage without drawing attention to yourself or drawing the wrath of your employer...............Think about ALTERNATIVES to guns they are all around us.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Simulation? Pishaw! Even attackers with AK's are going to pucker up when faced with return fire! As many on here know that throws aim, plan and courage way off!
So, if that's the best I can do, well enough!

 

[jim97701]

Just have everyone in your office pack one of these, Problem solved!

http://pcdcarry.com/

 

[Sgt Nambu]

^^^ LOL!!! Yelling BANG! Really loud!

 

[Just Jim]

I like this post because it emphasises advanced training and understanding the situation, not trying to play hero but being realistic about what one person can do when outgunned. As far as body armor and small groups, there is a technique called the Mozambique drill specifically designed to stop someone wearing body armour. Practice it.

Ya two to the body then go to the head is the way they taught for a long time. That waste time if there is more than one so straight for the head or what ever is open that doesn't have armor. From a hiding place you may not see their head to shoot at so the pelvic girdle may be the only area exposed.

 

[mjbskwim]

Ya two to the body then go to the head is the way they taught for a long time. That waste time if there is more than one so straight for the head or what ever is open that doesn't have armor. From a hiding place you may not see their head to shoot at so the pelvic girdle may be the only area exposed.

I always cringe when folks say they shot the bad guy in the leg cause they didn't want to kill them.
Uhh there is a large artery right there that will bleed you out fast.
And I always liked the shot to the foot. I would guess the pain would damper one's enthusiasm rather quick .