Stuck case/round in AR15

[The B]

I had to get rid of my Colt because of this exact same malfunction... not because it happened once or twice, but because it was happening every other round regardless of magazine or ammo used.

glad you got it taken care of.

this is a mag issue..

 

[Ryo]

Be careful when slamming any stock from an AR-15 platform on a hard surface. The free-floating firing pin has a way of find the primer of a live round when this happens...I've seen it firsthand, twice.

Only do this if you are getting shot at and you need to clear this malfunction ASAP.

Never seen it happen, but thinking about it, it's possible like you said. I've watch pros like Travis Haley use this method in my Carbine class for one student's AR.

When I do it I try to hold the bolt back as I slam it back. Do you know if it happen by just slamming the stock without holding the charging handle back?

 

[oregonshooter]

You can fix this on the range without tools too. Collapse the stock. Pull rearward on the charging handle and mortar the gun straight down into the ground while keeping pressure on the charging handle. Do it until you feel the charging handle move, even just a little. Keep pressure on the charging handle, reach in to the ejection port and put pressure on the bolt to keep it in place. Chop the charging handle forward while keeping the bolt in the place with your other hand and the stuck casing should come loose.

I highlighted the important part for you. I just broke my SOPMOD last weekend doing this because my mortar tube was angled towards the enemy.

Mine was a stuck casing that the extractor ripped the rim off on the 4th try though. I was at 350 rounds when it just locked up solid. Didn't have a cleaning rod with me (its now in my chest harness!) so was done for the day.

Went back out a few days later and shot another 200 without incident. Ammo was Wolf 62gr in LMT upper. Badly sized casing is my guess.

 

[oregonshooter]

The pin is going toward the deck during a motaring. Are you saying it bounces back with enough force to fire a primer?

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

I just had the same thing happen to me twice last weekend in a training class. It turned out to be a faulty magazine. The feed lips of the magazine were letting go of the round too early and it was jumping up in front of the bolt carrier as it cycled rearward. A pair of needle nose pliers fixed the problem (after the pins were popped out).

 

[wsu 5.9er]

I highlighted the important part for you. I just broke my SOPMOD last weekend doing this because my mortar tube was angled towards the enemy.

Mine was a stuck casing that the extractor ripped the rim off on the 4th try though. I was at 350 rounds when it just locked up solid. Didn't have a cleaning rod with me (its now in my chest harness!) so was done for the day.

Went back out a few days later and shot another 200 without incident. Ammo was Wolf 62gr in LMT upper. Badly sized casing is my guess.

In a class I took back in June, that happened during malfunction drills. One student brought it down at an angle and bent his buffer tube.

 

[Ryo]

I run with LMT buffer extension and had to mortar couple of times due to incorrect case sizing from reloads (yah.. got lazy) and possibly carbon build up to help it out. My SOPMOD and buffer tube never had any damage from doing that, but I'm not sure of the angle I was hitting it. Definitely not at a steep angle though.

I never use Wolf in my nice rifles no matter how cheap it is. Personal preference.

I also carry a case extractor from Brownells.. in case the rim gets ripped off. it's as small as a 223 brass so it's convenient to have in the bag. Luckly I haven't had a need to use it.

 

[Riot]

Never seen it happen, but thinking about it, it's possible like you said. I've watch pros like Travis Haley use this method in my Carbine class for one student's AR.

When I do it I try to hold the bolt back as I slam it back. Do you know if it happen by just slamming the stock without holding the charging handle back?

As long as the firing pin never touches the primer it won't happen...hence probably why he recommended pulling the charging handle back when you do it.

I've seen guys hop off of trucks and a round went off (nobody hurt), then one hopping in the back of a truck he accidently slammed the stock on a metal surface and shot the passenger in the back (he was okay, nothing major).

I tell these stories not to boast, but to make sure they don't happen again. The free floating firing pin in the AR-15 platforms is a major flaw.

 

[oregonshooter]

Riot,

I appreciate your insight on this. I started running an AR this year and had not thought about the potential of a slam fire until your post.

<broken link removed>

Good info on it.

I wonder how much a Ti firing pin would remove the risk and why they are not standard?


>Motaring... I have a BCM buffer tube and it held up to my beating. I called LMT to see about getting a new SOPMOD before my class this weekend and it got here yesterday. They sent it as mine was headed back to them (I gave them a tracking #) and I'll be able to take the class with the stock I'm use to because LMT rocks!!!!

 

[Ryo]

Wouldn't the type of primer make a difference?
I typically run CCI #41 primers which take more of a wack to set it off than a CCI #400.

Well I guess I'm getting off subject. Just thought to comment that the primer also has an effect.

 

[oregonshooter]

Yes, primer hardness and seating depth. It's on that link.

 

[Crispy]

I wonder how much a Ti firing pin would remove the risk and why they are not standard?

Real simple $$$$

steel= $6
Ti= $30+

 

[The B]

sure would be great if i could respond to this mother bubbleguming thread

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apparently it's gonna let me, now. it's been giving me a "internal server error" every time i've tried for the last two days. stand by for my comments..

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NO, apparently it's NOT going to let me say me piece. if i try to type anything longer than a couple sentences i get the same BRAIN GRATING internal server error. screw this.. continue to buy into bullcrap urban legend about guns discharging from banging them against crap.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

this is a mag issue..

apparently not

I used every one of my 30 mags. Many different manufacturers ranging from L5 translucent mags, magpul mags, steel mags with magpul followers, colt magazines, betamags, and hk magazines.
The issue was persistent with all of these mags.

I use these same magazines with my functionally flawless DPMS ar15.

I also used many differnt kinds of ammo. I used S&B, PMC, Federal, Wolf, Winchester, Fiocchi, Hornady, and a few other brands I cant remember off the top of my head.

The problem was with the rifle.

 

[The B]

apparently not

I used every one of my 30 mags. Many different manufacturers ranging from L5 translucent mags, magpul mags, steel mags with magpul followers, colt magazines, betamags, and hk magazines.
The issue was persistent with all of these mags.

I use these same magazines with my functionally flawless DPMS ar15.

I also used many differnt kinds of ammo. I used S&B, PMC, Federal, Wolf, Winchester, Fiocchi, Hornady, and a few other brands I cant remember off the top of my head.

The problem was with the rifle.

what did colt say?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

what did colt say?

They were able to replicate the problem. They replaced the bolt and carrier and said it was fixed... but it wasnt. They told me that any further inspection or repairs would cost me full retail for parts and labor.
I didnt have much faith in them, and I sure wasnt going to hand over my rifle and a blank check

After having a few gunsmiths look at it, it seemed to be an out of spec upper receiver.

I no longer have the rifle thankfully. I dont want to deal with colt ever again.
I'm just hoping my python doesnt develop any problems that require the manufacturers help.

 

[Riot]

Wouldn't the type of primer make a difference?
I typically run CCI #41 primers which take more of a wack to set it off than a CCI #400.

Yes, but be aware that constantly recocking the same round in the chamber numerous times weakens the primer as each time you chamber a round the firing pin slightly dents the primer. Don't believe me? Load a round and check it for yourself...the primer will have a small indentation on it.

Riot,
I wonder how much a Ti firing pin would remove the risk and why they are not standard?

Yes and because it costs more...there are many aftermarket parts that are better than their standard parts. Mostly it's due to stupidity...people demand to have a rifle that is standard issue for the military- regardless of it's flaws. People pay thousands to have rifles and gear to simulate US soldiers.

So the market is simply reflecting of it's customers...

 

[AMProducts]

You guys are way overstating the issue of the floating firing pin of the AR. The way the bolt moves around in the carrier, and the fact that the firing pin cannot even be engaged until the bolt fully cams closed makes the floating issue nearly moot. If this was really that serious an issue it likely would have been addressed on every design which uses this system. The number 1 issue when it comes to slam fires is typically related to the primer sticking too far out the back end of the case and is usually only an issue with badly reloaded ammo.

It takes about 17 in/lbs of force over a few milliseconds to set off a primer, which is the reason you can crush a primer in a reloading press 9 times out of 10 without it going off (I'm sure in that tenth time there is something which causes a slip in the force curve).

However, I think I've had a stranger malfunction... one time I got a blown primer, which blew up, and managed to get jammed in the carrier key. Pretty much the gun just stopped behaving normally, about every other round would cycle. I thought it was dirty and went to clean it, when I tried to jam a pipe cleaner down the key it wouldn't go through, inspection with a flashlight revealed a complete primer (cup and anvil) wedged into the bottom of the key.

 

[Ryo]

That's definitely pretty wild. Jam primer in you carrier key. Normally the bad ones I see are jammed under the trigger and jam the trigger.

 

[The B]

You guys are way overstating the issue of the floating firing pin of the AR. The way the bolt moves around in the carrier, and the fact that the firing pin cannot even be engaged until the bolt fully cams closed makes the floating issue nearly moot. If this was really that serious an issue it likely would have been addressed on every design which uses this system. The number 1 issue when it comes to slam fires is typically related to the primer sticking too far out the back end of the case and is usually only an issue with badly reloaded ammo.

It takes about 17 in/lbs of force over a few milliseconds to set off a primer, which is the reason you can crush a primer in a reloading press 9 times out of 10 without it going off (I'm sure in that tenth time there is something which causes a slip in the force curve).

However, I think I've had a stranger malfunction... one time I got a blown primer, which blew up, and managed to get jammed in the carrier key. Pretty much the gun just stopped behaving normally, about every other round would cycle. I thought it was dirty and went to clean it, when I tried to jam a pipe cleaner down the key it wouldn't go through, inspection with a flashlight revealed a complete primer (cup and anvil) wedged into the bottom of the key.

AMEN on the overstatement. i attempted to spell out the ridiculousness of this whole fear a FEW times.. but thanks to Mr. Internal Server Error, my paragraphs of typing would not post, and disappeared on backpage.

that's definitely the craziest blown-primer malfunction i've heard of.. most of the ones i've seen- ALL of them, probably, have been seized carriers with the primer lodged between the carrier and the receiver.