Stand Your Ground in a car.

[fyrediver]

Bear spray is good but WASP spray is better.(IMO) They will be blinded until they get there eyes washed out. And the can is large and shoots a solid stream about 15 feet. There is no law about discharge of Wasp spray like there is for Bear and Pepper spray.

Intruder fatally stabbed by Washington CrossFit trainer identified  - NY Daily News

Wasp spray in reality doesn't have the effect that urban legend attributes to it. As humans are not wasps it just doesn't do what people think it does. If you're going to use a chemical irritant use one designed for a mammal like Pepper spray.

 

[Redcap]

Bear spray is good but WASP spray is better.(IMO) They will be blinded until they get there eyes washed out. And the can is large and shoots a solid stream about 15 feet. There is no law about discharge of Wasp spray like there is for Bear and Pepper spray.

Wasp spray doesn't do a damn thing except piss a man off.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The ground I will stand on is about 2x6" and can best be described as a gas pedal.

 

[hermannr]

I recently read that Washington State's Stand Your Ground Law is somewhat ambiguous. Seems like it is more understandable when it relates to you place of residence, but gets kinda 'grey' away from home.

I feel I understand how it works if someone is breaking into my home and I feel in danger, but with recent events I wonder what I am legally allowed to do in a situation where I am threatened in my car. A scenario would be getting caught up in a crowd protest like we have seen in other cities where a crowd blocks a roadway and threatens the inhabitants of the car.

I'm pretty sure they are going to see the business end of my 10mm, but I really don't want to go to jail.

Any comments would be appreciated.

I think it was last year, but in Seattle there was a case of a Burglar broke it into the wrong house, it was occupied, and as he was running away escaping, he saw a car parked at the curb..the owner was on his cell phone.

The Burglar tried to car-jack the car using a knife as a weapon. The car owner shot him. Self-defense, no charges filed...and that was INSIDE Seattle.

 

[Black Dog]

Wasp spray doesn't do a damn thing except piss a man off.

You are right about Wasp spray really pissing a man off. Right along with the man at his son. His son was HUFFING Wasp spray and some how he sprayed it in his eyes. One long evening waiting for his son in ER to see when his son was going to be able to see again. Think what you want or better yet try it out and see (if you can). He ask the ER Doc about HUFFING the stuff and was told if he kept it up it would hurt his Liver. So you have your opinion and I have mine.

 

[duane black]

You are right about Wasp spray really pissing a man off. Right along with the man at his son. His son was HUFFING Wasp spray and some how he sprayed it in his eyes. One long evening waiting for his son in ER to see when his son was going to be able to see again. Think what you want or better yet try it out and see (if you can). He ask the ER Doc about HUFFING the stuff and was told if he kept it up it would hurt his Liver. So you have your opinion and I have mine.

As a father of a young daughter , I couldn't imagine. That would be a stress filled night.

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[duane black]

I think it was last year, but in Seattle there was a case of a Burglar broke it into the wrong house, it was occupied, and as he was running away escaping, he saw a car parked at the curb..the owner was on his cell phone.

The Burglar tried to car-jack the car using a knife as a weapon. The car owner shot him. Self-defense, no charges filed...and that was INSIDE Seattle.

Pretty interesting.

The only "clean" shoot I have seen was the man here in Vancouver that barricaded himself and his wife in a room as a intruder kicked(?) In the front door. He was shot dead after coming through the second. It was ruled justified.

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[Navman]

Good question OP

After seeing the freeway traffic stopped and the mob mentality, one wonders what to do if you have your Wife in the car and they began banging on your windows.

My thought would be to keep the car moving and hope those that are blocking your exit get out of the way?

 

[Riot]

If you are forced to draw your firearm you could consider shooting to incapacitate rather than killing the assailant.

What Stomper says is correct...

No, no, no.... that's akin to trying to "shoot the tires out" of a car for whatever reason. If you do that you'd most likely get into even MORE SERIOUS legal trouble than shooting to kill because deadly force is just that, deadly force, and it WOULD be argued that if you shot to "incapacitate" then you either weren't in "legitimate" fear of life and limb, or you could have done something "alterative", or you're a sicko who likes to maim others.

The only reasons why you should ever shoot at a limb is because that is the biggest available target (i.e. shooting under a car that he is hiding behind) or the subject is wearing body armor and you didn't want to risk a miss shooting at the head.

I was a professional soldier for 12 years, I've been in non lethal confrontations before where applying appropriate force worked out fine.

You've intentionally shot at a combatant's limb before when a center shot was available? What was the scenario?

It seems a bit crazy to think a center mass shot that is likely to kill someone would get me into less trouble than trying to apply non lethal or appropriate force...

Think of it this way, you are using a lethal weapon for non-lethal means. It's like using a flathead screwdriver to remove a phillips head screw. Will it work? It just might, but that's not what it was intended for. Want to incapacitate someone instead of killing them? Buy a TASER, not a gun.

...nor do I want to kill someone over the content of my wallet

Look chief, I doubt anyone here is willing to kill someone over a piece of leather, a driver's license a few green backs. Nevertheless, just because someone is robbing you for your wallet doesn't mean they will stop there.

Think of this: they pull out a knife, you decide to grab the wallet instead of the gun...now he wants to have his way with your wife.

I'm not going to shoot at him because I don't want him to have my wallet, I'm shooting him becasue he has a knife pointed at me and is threatening to do me harm. Get it? If this is still confusing for you and you still think this is about killing a punk over a wallet then I pitty you and think you shouldn't carry a firearm anymore because you clearly don't have the right mentality.

...though I'm certainly not going to let them take it.

If you intentionally cripple a guy with a gun, the content of your wallet isn't going to be the only thing he takes from you. You might just want to go ahead and put your house in a trust fund if this is your thought process.

 

[Misterbill]

OP: In answer to your question: Washington does not have a"Duty to Retreat." Period.

As long as there is otherwise lawful reason to use deadly force, you may do so.

Only about 10 states have a "Duty to retreat." I know Mass. is one of them, but even there the duty doesn't extend to your house.

And even WHEN there is a duty to retreat, you must be able to do so IN COMPLETE SAFETY for you and any others for whom you are responsible (spouse, child, etc.). If you can't retreat in complete safety, you don't have to.

About 40 states have "stand your ground" as a standard, either through specific legislation (Like WA) or through case law.

 

[PiratePast40]

For what it's worth, Oregon anti gun lawmakers submitted a "duty to retreat" bill this last session. There is little doubt that they will try it again in the shorter session next year. Of course, we can probably expect a flurry of other population control laws as well. I suspect that the same may be true in Washington. Stay informed and stay involved.

 

[Brutus57]

This latest effort is another one to disarm the general populace. Law "enforcement" shows up at your door by mistake, you can't say, hey now, where's the warrant, etc. you have to surrender up your life, liberty and your pursuit of things that go bang. Conservatives have to get out for the 2014 primaries and general and send a message to some of these bubblegums and their attempt to dismantle the Constitution.

Brutus out.

 

[duane black]

Pirate, this was proposed in Washington last session. The author pulled the bill due to fierce opposition from gun owners. She also made a public statement that she had received death threats due to her proposal, which I think is being a bit dramatic.

I'm sure it will eventually be back.


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[Redcap]

You are right about Wasp spray really pissing a man off. Right along with the man at his son. His son was HUFFING Wasp spray and some how he sprayed it in his eyes. One long evening waiting for his son in ER to see when his son was going to be able to see again. Think what you want or better yet try it out and see (if you can). He ask the ER Doc about HUFFING the stuff and was told if he kept it up it would hurt his Liver. So you have your opinion and I have mine.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Hope the kid doesn't reproduce.

 

[deen_ad]

Washington doesn't have a "stand your ground" law. What we have is case law.

Which started around the 1890's and some have got to the State Supreme Court.

 

[deen_ad]

About 40 states have "stand your ground" as a standard, either through specific legislation (Like WA) or through case law.

Nor does WA have a "stand your ground" law like you seem to think. Ours is all in case law starting about 1890.

 

[Misterbill]

Nor does WA have a "stand your ground" law like you seem to think. Ours is all in case law starting about 1890.

Actually we DO. The default is no duty to retreat. That goes back to England and common law.

Ours explicitly states that you can deploy lethal force anywhere you have a legal right to be.

Because we follow common law standards in WA state, anything not prohibited is allowed.

Specific language on removing a "duty to retreat" is what's needed when you HAVE an explicit law requiring that duty. Absent such a law (as with WA) the DEFAULT position is no duty to retreat. And the language about "anywhere you have the right to be" speaks pretty specifically about duty to retreat, in the opinion of a couple of criminal lawyers I've consulted on the subject for our class curriculum.

You're correct, in that we don't have a specific statute that says explicitly we don't have a DTR. But current law reflects in it's language, that reality.

 

[revjen45]

Having lived in the immediate area of the Greater Los Angeles County Inter-Ethnic May Festival of 1992 and seen what happened to Reginald Denny when he stopped it seems like a good idea to:
1) honk the horn (warning to those blocking the way out)
2) step on the gas (doing my best to retreat, even though not required)
3) turn up the radio (Say what? Can't hear you. Gotta leave now - time for dinner.)

eace:

Huffing bug spray? Yeah, I bet that isn't good for your liver.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Huffing bug spray? Yeah, I bet that isn't good for your liver.

Ive been exposed to everything thats been around for the last 11 years (none of the incredible legendary stuff) but a LOT of harsh insecticides, rodenticides and herbicides and Im still alive.

(This is intended for above posts concerning "wasp spray")

However.. Not a lot you can buy commercially that would have extreme side effects this is why commercial insecticides with just a "caution" on the label are generally legally obtainable by non licensed applicators.

The caution meaning.. No super harsh ill-effects. And limited half life/residual once applied.


Ive breathed in and been sprayed with everything this side of the Mississippi and none have ever stopped me in my tracks..
Now aerosols like PT565 burn the hell out of your eyes.. But it fades very fast.
Wasp/YJ foam/spray hurts MUCH less than PT565 and a lot less than bear mace.