National Solvent Trap Barrel Extension?

[wired]

If the "can" does not suppress sound, then it is not a suppressor, whether it has an end cap or not.

To answer the OP, just do not put an end cap on the can.

Thats not how it works. Its a suppressor tube. End caps are suppressor parts if there is a hole drilled through the end cap. Well established in NFA rules over the years. Try to submit a empty tube through tech with an end cap if it doesnt cover the barrel . No dice. Fake suppressor have to be solid with a hole through the center or they have to cover the barrel. Ever wonder why you dont see any of what you are suggesting is legal?

 

[TTSX]

Thats not how it works. Its a suppressor tube. End caps are suppressor parts if there is a hole drilled through the end cap. Well established in NFA rules over the years. Try to submit a empty tube through tech with an end cap if it doesnt cover the barrel . No dice. Fake suppressor have to be solid with a hole through the center or they have to cover the barrel. Ever wonder why you dont see any of what you are suggesting is legal?

I'll be frank and say your understanding of NFA stuff is far and away better than the rest of this forum combined. I mean, it's not like you have a house full of them plus a manufacturing license, right? I appreciate the info you share with us

 

[wired]

I'll be frank and say your understanding of NFA stuff is far and away better than the rest of this forum combined. I mean, it's not like you have a house full of them plus a manufacturing license, right? I appreciate the info you share with us

An empty tube with a tight end cap will knock 10dB off the report with no baffles in the can whatsoever.

 

[The Heretic]

Thats not how it works. Its a suppressor tube. End caps are suppressor parts if there is a hole drilled through the end cap. Well established in NFA rules over the years. Try to submit a empty tube through tech with an end cap if it doesnt cover the barrel . No dice. Fake suppressor have to be solid with a hole through the center or they have to cover the barrel. Ever wonder why you dont see any of what you are suggesting is legal?

I will admit others know a lot more about this than I do. I do agree the end cap would probably suppress sound, and therefore would make it a suppressor.

However, I don't believe the thickness of the tube has any bearing on the laws or the regs/rules - there are plenty of shrouds out there that are very thin. Nor does the size of the hole in the end of the tube - in and of itself.

My point was that if the muzzle device does not suppress the sound of a gunshot, it is not a suppressor and my link to the ATF site more or less says that is what a suppressor is. So sure, if a "can" with an end cap suppresses the sound, then it is a suppressor, if it does not, then it isn't.

It is interesting that a barrel itself, could be considered a suppressor if you wanted to get technical about it; the longer the barrel, in general, the more quiet the gunshot sound as longer barrel will indeed reduce the pressure/heat of the gases escaping from it.

Some barrels effectively have a freebore at the muzzle end that is not that much larger than the rifled bore. Also, there are fake flash hiders and comps that are effectively the same thing. Then there are shrouds that cover the muzzle end, and "sound directors" too. All of these do not suppress the sound - but the sound directors do direct the sound forward so the sound is effectively less to the side and rearward.

I know I am being equivocal, but the law and regs/rules talks about the suppressors as devices that suppress sound and that is the intention of them.

I do think the OP is ok with the device he wants to attach to the barrel if he does not include the end cap. If the device has threading on the end for a cap, then that is maybe stepping over the line, especially if he has the end cap in his possession.

 

[The Heretic]

Keep things simple, replace the barrel with a 16" and go shooting. Keep the short barrel on the shelf for if the rules change... Why put your dogs life at risk.

Technically, if you don't have a pistol to put the short barrel on, and it is in your possession, then that could be construed as constructive possession of an SBR even if it is not attached to the firearm.

 

[wired]

I will admit others know a lot more about this than I do. I do agree the end cap would probably suppress sound, and therefore would make it a suppressor.

However, I don't believe the thickness of the tube has any bearing on the laws or the regs/rules - there are plenty of shrouds out there that are very thin. Nor does the size of the hole in the end of the tube - in and of itself.

My point was that if the muzzle device does not suppress the sound of a gunshot, it is not a suppressor and my link to the ATF site more or less says that is what a suppressor is. So sure, if a "can" with an end cap suppresses the sound, then it is a suppressor, if it does not, then it isn't.

It is interesting that a barrel itself, could be considered a suppressor if you wanted to get technical about it; the longer the barrel, in general, the more quiet the gunshot sound as longer barrel will indeed reduce the pressure/heat of the gases escaping from it.

Some barrels effectively have a freebore at the muzzle end that is not that much larger than the rifled bore. Also, there are fake flash hiders and comps that are effectively the same thing. Then there are shrouds that cover the muzzle end, and "sound directors" too. All of these do not suppress the sound - but the sound directors do direct the sound forward so the sound is effectively less to the side and rearward.

I know I am being equivocal, but the law and regs/rules talks about the suppressors as devices that suppress sound and that is the intention of them.

I do think the OP is ok with the device he wants to attach to the barrel if he does not include the end cap. If the device has threading on the end for a cap, then that is maybe stepping over the line, especially if he has the end cap in his possession.

Your'e still wrong. The any part of a suppressor is a suppressor applies to end caps and tubes as well as internal parts. Its part of the '86 FOPA. The ATF requires fake cans to be essentially solid . You cannot have the bullet pass through an empty can and you cannot have an internally ( at the end ) threaded tube attached to the end of the barrel . SIG tried that and got shot down. They also tried attaching a silencer core with no tube and got shot down too. There are barrel shrouds that cover the barrel with an end cap. The old GSG 22 cal MP5 copy was a great example of that tube over the barrel idea. At the beginning for a little bit there they were importing just what you are advocating with an empty can welded onto the barrel and the ATF forced a recall of all of them. Cost them millions taking them all back in and putting 16" barrels with over shrouds on them.

 

[FnM]

Although not limited to the following, the 300 Blackout was developed as a suppressed subsonic cartridge optimized for a 8"-11" barrel. As far as firefights, the M4 carbine has seen its share with a 14.5" barrel. Then you have the NGSW XM7 6.8x51mm which has a 13" barrel. There are a number of other examples which contradict your opinion regarding barrel length.

Yeah… but kickin that nest is just too damn easy. Besides, who doesn't love a good pissing match over barrels and ballistics. Training never ends.

 

[Will_White]

Your'e still wrong. The any part of a suppressor is a suppressor applies to end caps and tubes as well as internal parts. Its part of the '86 FOPA. The ATF requires fake cans to be essentially solid . You cannot have the bullet pass through an empty can and you cannot have an internally ( at the end ) threaded tube attached to the end of the barrel . SIG tried that and got shot down. They also tried attaching a silencer core with no tube and got shot down too. There are barrel shrouds that cover the barrel with an end cap. The old GSG 22 cal MP5 copy was a great example of that tube over the barrel idea. At the beginning for a little bit there they were importing just what you are advocating with an empty can welded onto the barrel and the ATF forced a recall of all of them. Cost them millions taking them all back in and putting 16" barrels with over shrouds on them.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm planning. For the barrel extension what I'm wanting is basically a big long flash can, just the tube and the threaded end cap, welding the tube to the cap and then pinning and welding that to the barrel so it's longer then 16" and no longer an SBR. The other end cap, if I used one at all, would be just a thread protector drilled out so there was only a small lip on the inside not a tightly drilled end cap. I see that using the flash can as a base for a supressor might be an issue in the future.

 

[msgriff]

OP, how long is the existing barrel?

 

[Will_White]

OP, how long is the existing barrel?

10 or 11" I haven't measured yet.

 

[msgriff]

10 or 11" I haven't measured yet.

Here's an option:
If the barrel is 10.5" or longer, p&w a 6" extended flash hider, which adds 5.56" to the actual barrel length putting it over 16". Figure out your form 1, then swap it out when it's ready. They're around $25-$30, and the p&w can be reversed without destroying the muzzle if done by anyone that knows what they're doing. There are tricks on the initial p&w which makes reversal easier while still being BATFE compliant.

 

[arakboss]

Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms - Gun Control Act Definition - Silencer | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Previous Page Download this Section Download the Guidebook Next Page Firearms Verification Gun Control Act Definitions Silencer 18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(24) The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm...

www.atf.gov

The term "Firearm Silencer" or "Firearm Muffler" means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Are Fake Suppressors Legal? – Silencer Central

Upon learning of their existence, you may have asked yourself, “Wait a minute, fake suppressors are real products?” Then, because you know that there are a whole slew of special federal, state…

www.silencercentral.com

A fake suppressor is exactly what its name says it is. It's an object that attaches to the end of the barrel of a firearm that looks like a suppressor but does not actually offer any of the sound reduction benefits of a real suppressor.

I wonder if any testing has been done to see if fake suppressors lower sound level or diminish report at all. There is no threshold, so if it reduced sound by even a tiny amount, it could be considered a suppressor?

 

[asiparks]

Op, if you have a lower already for the upper, why not slap a brace on it, do the free E-File for that lower, slap a proper stock on it in a couple of months when you get approved and just have an SBR instead of trying to make the barrel 16"
At the same time buy and file for a much more useful, real suppressor that you can use on this and other weapons ?

I wonder if any testing has been done to see if fake suppressors lower sound level or diminish report at all. There is no threshold, so if it reduced sound by even a tiny amount, it could be considered a suppressor?

If it has an enclosed internal volume greater than the bore of the weapon, and gas escaping from the end of the barrel is able to expand inside that volume, prior to passing through another, smaller hole hole in the end "cap" then it will reduce the dBs.
It will also very much be a silencer in the eyes of the ATF without having addition baffles or chambers inside.