Should I get a C.C.w right away

[Member 53328]

You don't have to put things into irrational extremes to try and make or justify your points... ya know.

I was simply disagreeing with the premise that you have to take more than just a punch to the face before you can justify lethal force.... and I would disagree too that walking around dropping people for spouting off an idle threat is correct or reasonable either.

Objectively not subjectively

So give me a scenario where someone has yet to throw a punch or use a weapon that would justify deadly force….

Other than kidnapping/rape/etc. cause those are obviously causing bodily harm.

 

[bbbass]

OP from April 2022,

Let me ask the guru:

Magic 8-ball says "Yes"

 

[Yarome]

So give me a scenario where someone has yet to throw a punch or use a weapon that would justify deadly force….

Seriously??? You can't think of any on your own and need my help?

Think about it for just a minute. I have every confidence in you.

 

[Member 53328]

Seriously??? You can't think of any on your own and need my help?

Think about it for just a minute. I have every confidence in you.

Thought so.

Unless words are that mean.

 

[po18guy]

Get rid of your TV first. A poster of a TV is OK, but you'll then need spackling to fix the holes.

 

[Yarome]

Thought so.

Unless words are that mean.

"Prove it to my satisfaction or your wrong"... is it? What are we... 13??

We're already off topic and I'm not going to play that game with you. I'm sure if you put your mind to it or did a bit of research your curiosity can be satisifed.

 

[Member 53328]

"Prove it to my satisfaction or your wrong"... is it? What are we... 13??

We're already off topic and I'm not going to play that game with you. I'm sure if you put your mind to it or did a bit of research your curiosity can be satisifed.

You could never satisfy me. Haha

 

[hongkong2]

You can't shoot someone if they only throw a punch…. I mean you can but….

More than likely if you find yourself in a scenario like that you messed up long before catching hands.

Death or SERIOUS bodily harm. Unless you wanna spend the rest of your life in jail you may wanna make sure certain elements have taken place to LEGALLY allow you to neutralize a threat through deadly force.

Don't forget disparity in size and age also come into play here.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Getting a "C.C." is actually impossible.

 

[Member 53328]

Don't forget disparity in size and age also come into play here.

Post #34

 

[Member 53328]

Getting a "C.C." is actually impossible.

I thought it was optional…. Haha

 

[washagonian]

You can't shoot someone if they only throw a punch…. I mean you can but….

More than likely if you find yourself in a scenario like that you messed up long before catching hands.

Death or SERIOUS bodily harm. Unless you wanna spend the rest of your life in jail you may wanna make sure certain elements have taken place to LEGALLY allow you to neutralize a threat through deadly force.

Since this thread is really weird and went of the rails a long time ago - I don't feel too guilty in adding my two-cents to the sub-topic of the legal use of deadly force.

@1775usmc - I'm pretty much in your camp on this issue.

I did a one day training facilitated by attorney Andrew Branca about 3 years ago. Best training I've had on the legal ramifications and criteria that would be addressed in a trial regarding the use of deadly force in self-defense.

He provides an understandable perspective on what he calls, "The Five Required Elements for Legal Self Defense". Innocence, Imminence, Avoidance, Proportionality, Reasonableness.

Proportionality and Reasonableness are operative in the points you've been making about whether or not you can legally use deadly force if someone starts to punch you.

Branca is intimately connected with CCWSafe. But he wrote a brief article for USCCA regarding those five required elements for legal self-defense. It's probably 500 words long - a 5 minute read, at most. If anyone's interested - here's the link.

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/14a090a3-e00d-4529-8e8d-37e35fb5c9b5/downloads/DeadlyForceDecisionMaking.pdf?ver=1630942854280

 

[Member 53328]

Since this thread is really weird and went of the rails a long time ago - I don't feel too guilty in adding my two-cents to the sub-topic of the legal use of deadly force.

@1775usmc - I'm pretty much in your camp on this issue.

I did a one day training facilitated by attorney Andrew Branca about 3 years ago. Best training I've had on the legal ramifications and criteria that would be addressed in a trial regarding the use of deadly force in self-defense.

He provides an understandable perspective on what he calls, "The Five Required Elements for Legal Self Defense". Innocence, Imminence, Avoidance, Proportionality, Reasonableness.

Proportionality and Reasonableness are operative in the points you've been making about whether or not you can legally use deadly force if someone starts to punch you.

Branca is intimately connected with CCWSafe. But he wrote a brief article for USCCA regarding those five required elements for legal self-defense. It's probably 500 words long - a 5 minute read, at most. If anyone's interested - here's the link.

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/14a090a3-e00d-4529-8e8d-37e35fb5c9b5/downloads/DeadlyForceDecisionMaking.pdf?ver=1630942854280

After my time in LE my opinion and understanding of deadly force/force continuum and when it can/should be applied has evolved greatly. I don't expect everyone to agree with me or see situations through my prospective.

Keep a calm/deliberate mind set and stay frosty.

 

[USAF Medic]

Personally, I don't see any reason for anyone not to get their permit while it's still relatively easy to do so. Having one doesn't mean you must carry. It simply means that you are exercising the right and option to do so.

For the OP I would answer, absolutely!

At $115 the cost of a concealed Cary permit in Oregon seems excessive!

 

[Yarome]

At $115 the cost of a concealed Cary permit in Oregon seems excessive!

I certainly won't argue with you about that!!

For the amount of time it took the officer to flip through my paperwork and hand me my card, he's gotta be making $345/hr. (Less the $5 for the card itself)

 

[Camelfilter]

At $115 the cost of a concealed Cary permit in Oregon seems excessive!

True.

If 114 passes, the costs could easily be multiple times as much...

 

[USAF Medic]

It took 5 months to get an appointment at the Lincoln County Sheriffs office.

 

[USAF Medic]

So there is not a way to get a permit right away!

 

[Mikej]

At $115 the cost of a concealed Cary permit in Oregon seems excessive!

They just raised it from something like $65.00 I think it was. Prolly first of the year? July 1st?

So there is not a way to get a permit right away!

No. It's certainly not a priority in dem controlled counties. Whether by design, or dem controlled counties just have way more crime and not enough staff to take care of biz, like they should.

 

[Roadkill Bill]

So what you're gunna shoot every individual who squares up to you and says he's going to beat the sh!t out of you……

Deadly force means that force which a reasonable person would consider likely to cause death or serious bodily harm. Its use may be justified only under conditions of extreme necessity, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed.

Objective vs Subjective.

So being elderly (whatever that means) having pre existing medical conditions (whatever that means) have a physically fit, possibly drug impaired, unjustifiably and irrationally angry, (whatever that means) that is making verbal threats that they are going to beat the living bubblegum out of me, wouldn't justify a reasonable fear of imminent serious injury or death?
It's all about the totality of the circumstances!
So a response of, I'll shoot you in the face, does nothing but elicit a response of, "I can beat the bubblegum out of you before you can draw your gun", doesn't increase my fear or risk of serious harm?
What if he asks me if I'd ever heard of the 17 foot rule?
Would that be a justification for fearing serious injury?
What if your previous experience spoke of someone who is likely in the midst of an amphetamine rage and the fact that he was angry over a disrespectful tilt of the head and eye contact.
So we have an unarmed person, and this elderly, physically impaired individual facing the above set of circumstances, wouldn't be justified in shooting this man in the face, if he attacked?
Well, I guess my use of verbal judo and the glint in my eye, was enough to keep us all from finding out how this would have ended, if the enraged tweeker had followed through with his threat, because I would have without hesitation followed through with my response to his initial threat.
And I would honestly love to have anyone of you on the jury.
ps. He didn't say bubblegum.