Other State Shooter in deadly Florida 'Stand Your Ground' case arrested for manslaughter

[awshoot]

March for racial justice planned for Saturday, a month after white man acquitted in the killing of black man in East Central

Gotcha -- different story.

 

[American123]

March for racial justice planned for Saturday, a month after white man acquitted in the killing of black man in East Central

Ah, ok, was wondering how any differences could have affected the outcome. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[that guy]

We talked to jurors who found Michael Drejka guilty of manslaughter

The verdict came down to the surveillance video that captured the shooting, they said.

www.tampabay.com

 

[awshoot]

We talked to jurors who found Michael Drejka guilty of manslaughter

The verdict came down to the surveillance video that captured the shooting, they said.

www.tampabay.com

Don't go blabbing without an attorney:

Ryan compared what Drejka said to the video, and some things just didn't line up, he said. For example, Drejka told detectives he saw McGlockton step forward, but in the video, he moves back.

 

[soberups]

Exactly. Signs and rules mean squat if people have no consequence.

If you choose to carry a concealed weapon you forfeit your right to voluntarily participate in conflicts.
This guy was a self-appointed parking lot monitor and cop wannabe. He was also a racist. If he wants to be those things that is his business but he should have left his gun at home.
I might politely remind someone that they are parked in a handicapped spot, but if they got argumentative I would walk away and either call the police or inform the owner of the property. If I am carrying, I simply refuse to engage in any sort of argument or dispute that could potentially escalate. In the 23 years that I have had a permit I have never gotten into a fight and have never once had to draw my gun. And I want to keep it that way.

 

[No_Regerts]

If you choose to carry a concealed weapon you forfeit your right to voluntarily participate in conflicts.
This guy was a self-appointed parking lot monitor and cop wannabe. He was also a racist. If he wants to be those things that is his business but he should have left his gun at home.
I might politely remind someone that they are parked in a handicapped spot, but if they got argumentative I would walk away and either call the police or inform the owner of the property. If I am carrying, I simply refuse to engage in any sort of argument or dispute that could potentially escalate. In the 23 years that I have had a permit I have never gotten into a fight and have never once had to draw my gun. And I want to keep it that way.

That dude was dumb about it for sure, but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to call people out on their crap.

 

[bbbass]

If you choose to carry a concealed weapon you forfeit your right to voluntarily participate in conflicts.
This guy was a self-appointed parking lot monitor and cop wannabe. He was also a racist. If he wants to be those things that is his business but he should have left his gun at home.
I might politely remind someone that they are parked in a handicapped spot, but if they got argumentative I would walk away and either call the police or inform the owner of the property. If I am carrying, I simply refuse to engage in any sort of argument or dispute that could potentially escalate. In the 23 years that I have had a permit I have never gotten into a fight and have never once had to draw my gun. And I want to keep it that way.

That dude was dumb about it for sure, but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to call people out on their crap.

Sorry, I gotta agree with @soberups on this one. In today's world it is highly risky to call people out on their crap. Not even LEOs get away from the repercussions of an armed encounter that can quickly escalate. Although LEOs cannot always de-escalate, IMO self defenders often are able to do so, but for various reason some don't want to. Most often I think for those self defenders, ego is involved. That doesn't mean one has to accept being abused, especially physically, but why go looking for trouble when there is plenty around that can find us anyway?

De-escalation: Today I went to Walmart to pickup a prescription and a few other things. The meds turned out to be $90 worth and I told that gal at the counter that I didn't want them (I can get them thru the VA for $8ea copay). Finished shopping I crossed the main pavement to get to my vehicle parked in the Handicapped zone with sticker properly displayed. I noticed a car in front of the store apparently waiting for another person to vacate a handicap spot. However, the other person didn't seem inclined to leave.

When I got to my car I put my groceries away except for the all beef hot dog, which I proceeded to prepare. But I noticed in my mirror that the car had moved up behind me and was waiting for me now. I shook my head at him. He waited a bit, then pulled up to move into another space a few spots away. I would normally eat my hot dog in peace while listening to the radio, but I had decided to give him a break and put the car in reverse. He started backing up, but another car pulled up behind him, so he went ahead and parked.

By the time I had reversed out of the handicap space, the guy was at the rear of his vehicle, standing in the road with his hands on his hips and giving me the stinkeye. As I pulled even I rolled down my window, giving back the stinkeye, and in a stern voice saying "Is there a problem?" He says "Yeah, I needed that space for a wheelchair" as his partner gets out of the car with a walker, no wheelchair in sight. De-escalation: I smiled and said "Oh, I'm sorry... I needed to fixup my hot dog before leaving." Now, I had considered delivering a lecture on waiting your turn. But after my smile and faux apology, the guy softens his look, both guys smile and he cheerfully says "Have a nice day!".......... The sweet sound of a successful strategy that cost me nothing since my ego isn't dependent on holding some other guy's feet to the fire.

In many cases, a simple palms out and a "sorry fella, I don't want any trouble" heads off trouble. In a few cases, such an action will trigger a predator. But it's worth a try vs the risk of a deadly encounter.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Meanwhile in California California appeals court overturns sole conviction in Kate Steinle death

 

[bbbass]

1. Drejka is not a parking enforcement officer.
2. Don't approach people's car and start acting all shady
3. When asked WTF you are doing, explain nicely
4. When Drejka was confronted by nasty person saying she could park where she wanted, he should have put his palms face forward and said "Hey lady, I don't want any trouble with you" and left to go call the PD.
5. After being shoved by McGlockton, I would have preferred to move my butt back, creating more distance, put my palms face forward and saying "hey man, I don't want any trouble with you. I'm going to leave now" Then get up and leave and go call a cop. I would have drawn on him only if he re-advanced on me. Who knows, I'd also prefer to think I would have noticed him approaching. And if I was giving his wife/GF sch!t, I would expect to get my azz whupped. Wouldn't be the first time. Just because you're armed, doesn't mean you don't deserve a good azz whuppin!! (legal or not)

 

[No_Regerts]

Sorry, I gotta agree with @soberups on this one. In today's world it is highly risky to call people out on their crap. Not even LEOs get away from the repercussions of an armed encounter that can quickly escalate. Although LEOs cannot always de-escalate, IMO self defenders often are able to do so, but for various reason some don't want to. Most often I think for those self defenders, ego is involved. That doesn't mean one has to accept being abused, especially physically, but why go looking for trouble when there is plenty around that can find us anyway?

De-escalation: Today I went to Walmart to pickup a prescription and a few other things. The meds turned out to be $90 worth and I told that gal at the counter that I didn't want them (I can get them thru the VA for $8ea copay). Finished shopping I crossed the main pavement to get to my vehicle parked in the Handicapped zone with sticker properly displayed. I noticed a car in front of the store apparently waiting for another person to vacate a handicap spot. However, the other person didn't seem inclined to leave.

When I got to my car I put my groceries away except for the all beef hot dog, which I proceeded to prepare. But I noticed in my mirror that the car had moved up behind me and was waiting for me now. I shook my head at him. He waited a bit, then pulled up to move into another space a few spots away. I would normally eat my hot dog in peace while listening to the radio, but I had decided to give him a break and put the car in reverse. He started backing up, but another car pulled up behind him, so he went ahead and parked.

By the time I had reversed out of the handicap space, the guy was at the rear of his vehicle, standing in the road with his hands on his hips and giving me the stinkeye. As I pulled even I rolled down my window, giving back the stinkeye, and in a stern voice saying "Is there a problem?" He says "Yeah, I needed that space for a wheelchair" as his partner gets out of the car with a walker, no wheelchair in sight. De-escalation: I smiled and said "Oh, I'm sorry... I needed to fixup my hot dog before leaving." Now, I had considered delivering a lecture on waiting your turn. But after my smile and faux apology, the guy softens his look, both guys smile and he cheerfully says "Have a nice day!".......... The sweet sound of a successful strategy that cost me nothing since my ego isn't dependent on holding some other guy's feet to the fire.

In many cases, a simple palms out and a "sorry fella, I don't want any trouble" heads off trouble. In a few cases, such an action will trigger a predator. But it's worth a try vs the risk of a deadly encounter.

I just find it odd that on a website where people will criticize indecision or a perceived incorrect response by an LEO, you find so many people not willing to act on anything. Not willing to tell people they are wrong in person, not going to engage people who are doing harm to others, etc.

I'm not sure if I am wired differently or what, but I've never had a problem with telling someone where to go and how to get there. Been paid to do so since I was 18 in one form or another. Maybe that's why I do what I do for a living.

 

[Head Shot]

Erased

 

[No_Regerts]

Hello : No_Regerts (Think you meant Regrets but that's not how you spelled it )
You make several comments above in reply post #439 that make me think you believe your superior to everyone of us on the web site.
First you said You found it odd that people would criticitze indecision or a precieved incorrect response by a LEO. ( A few not all LEOs are wrong and need to be removed )
I do extend my respect to the LEOs that are in fact good .
And that you find so many people not willing to act on anything.
Not willing to tell people they are wrong in person , not going to engage people who are doing others harm to others ect .
That you've never had a problem with telling someone where to go and how to get there.
So you want everybody to get into it with everybody they see and think is wrong doers ???? And others DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO STAY OUT OF IT BUT DO AS YOU PLEASE GET INTO THE MESS NOT THERES.
Heck yes engage get into a shoot eventually be known as the barney five wanna be copper end up in court over somebody elses problem lose your house and go bankrupt maybe even get hurt or go to prison.
Heck yeah lets go plain beserk crazy were all wanna be coppers now and im the authority in chg here now you listen and do or else !
Are you kidding me ? Bring back the wild west days ?
Think you been paid too long and to do law work as I read your post and lost view on both sides of the fence and got just plain mean.
You have what it takes to be the next Mr Drejka as I see it so hey go ahead do it as a citizen and see how well that works for you in the end someday just as it did for Mr Drejka.
If Mr Drejka had called the law likely everybody would be alive and the state would have had a ticket for unlawful handi cap parking with money pd for the violation and a road would have been funded for all.
But no it was a funeral and huge loss of common sense resulting in no good for all involved.
Personally it would have to be for myself a very serious conflict before id step in and a parking violation sure as heck isnt even close to getting into one.
Use some common sense and dont be a wanna be copper or the beach sand kicking bully and the rest will work itself out better than a kill ending with little stuff starting it.
Head Shot

I think you're proving my point. You're overthinking this stuff and its this overthinking in general that paralyzes people when something needs to be done. A "confrontation" doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be what that guy did. It could be a "really?" or offering someone "assistance" as to not show them up. If they get schitty with you, tell them to f-off and walk away or have a nice day, whatever your schtick is.

People shouldn't be afraid of interacting with others. It doesn't need to go from being in your shell to shooting up the place. Does your internal tachometer only have 0 and 9000 RPM? What about everything in the middle? Your nerve is like a 4 stroke outboard, if you don't run the throttle throughout its range, you lose the ability to take full advantage of the middle.

I'm sorry that the idea of people interacting for anything but roses and rainbows scares you so much. Try to get out more.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

 

[bbbass]

I just find it odd that on a website where people will criticize indecision or a perceived incorrect response by an LEO, you find so many people not willing to act on anything. Not willing to tell people they are wrong in person, not going to engage people who are doing harm to others, etc.

I'm not sure if I am wired differently or what, but I've never had a problem with telling someone where to go and how to get there. Been paid to do so since I was 18 in one form or another. Maybe that's why I do what I do for a living.

I get it... But ya know it's highly personal in the case of civilians helping others... I have to respect those that say protecting family comes first. I'm stupid... I'd run across a busy freeway to get to where a rollover accident just happened. But I was a Lifeguard, then a Coastie... I'm wired that way!

I was raised in S. Calif, a place that used to be chill... we minded our own biz... often to an extent that we didn't even know our neighbors. But not my Dad. My dad was one such as you described... and, he was a short man... always getting in somebody's face/sch!t. Like a barking Chihauhau. The older he got, the worse he became for this behavior... my 6'4" brother had to rescue his old butt from getting stomped a number of times when out in public. Not cool!!!

As far as engaging people that are merely behaving poorly... IMO it doesn't need to happen. My sifu taught me that real strength comes from the confidence of knowing that you can handle people, but you need to know when to and when not to. Being armed and interfering with people is the same thing... it's highly risky if the thing escalates to the point where you then can't walk away... and just plain tragic if the whole mess could have been avoided.

LEOs don't have this choice... it's their job to get involved. Most of the time you won't see criticism from me... but you have to admit that some cops take the attitude a bit far.

 

[No_Regerts]

I get it... But ya know it's highly personal in the case of civilians helping others... I have to respect those that say protecting family comes first. I'm stupid... I'd run across a busy freeway to get to where a rollover accident just happened. But I was a Lifeguard, then a Coastie... I'm wired that way!

I was raised in S. Calif, a place that used to be chill... we minded our own biz... often to an extent that we didn't even know our neighbors. But not my Dad. My dad was one such as you described... and, he was a short man... always getting in somebody's face/sch!t. Like a barking Chihauhau. The older he got, the worse he became for this behavior... my 6'4" brother had to rescue his old butt from getting stomped a number of times when out in public. Not cool!!!

As far as engaging people that are merely behaving poorly... IMO it doesn't need to happen. My sifu taught me that real strength comes from the confidence of knowing that you can handle people, but you need to know when to and when not to. Being armed and interfering with people is the same thing... it's highly risky if the thing escalates to the point where you then can't walk away... and just plain tragic if the whole mess could have been avoided.

LEOs don't have this choice... it's their job to get involved. Most of the time you won't see criticism from me... but you have to admit that some cops take the attitude a bit far.

See, I consider myself a master of manipulating people into fixing themselves. When I'm on duty, I will almost always give someone the opportunity to have an "a-ha!" moment. But once the conversation turns one-way and we aren't communicating, things get more administrative.

When I'm working at the bar, I have to remember that these are customers we want to come back. Many are regulars. But, I'm responsible for what happens in the building and again, you learn to manipulate people into correcting themselves.

If it starts with, "hey azzhole", you're not going to get far conversationally. What you do from there is based on the situation. Grab a combative drunk by the hair and throw him out on the sidewalk to protect the other patrons? Sure. Square off with someone over someone else's parking spot? Maybe not. That's when you go into horse whisperer mode.

His first mistake was trying to tell a woman she did something wrong and them get into a battle of words And I mean that most excellently to the women folk around here. The "can I help" goes further than "you f-ed up".

 

[bbbass]

The "can I help" goes further than "you f-ed up".

I'm not smart enough to be manipulative... I have my dad's straight on approach to things. But the guy giving me the stink eye got my hackles up... so I gave him the stern "Is there a problem?" and gave him the chance to bark at me... better me than he carries his mad and bothers somebody else. Afterwards he felt better... problem solved.

Glad I don't have to deal with drunks.... couldn't do it. Kudos to those that can but after being married to a drunk I find drunkeness to be repulsive and disgusting. Parking disputes are much easier to solve.

 

[No_Regerts]

Hello : No_Regerts (Think you meant Regrets but that's not how you spelled it )
You make several comments above in reply post #439 that make me think you believe your superior to everyone of us on the web site.

Just wanted to address this one little quote.
I think the case is exactly the opposite. I don't believe I have super powers. Its actually my belief that we are all equals that makes me wonder why so many are unwilling to say something to someone or do something if the situation warrants it. I'll admit I get lots of practice, but most people on here are plenty capable.

I think its important to empower people to do whats right. Sometimes whats right isn't always the "right thing".

 

[No_Regerts]

Glad I don't have to deal with drunks.... couldn't do it. Kudos to those that can but after being married to a drunk I find drunkeness to be repulsive and disgusting. Parking disputes are much easier to solve.

Its the worst. And drunken chicks are an example of where this country is going. They behave so poorly because they've never experienced consequences for acting that way. Guys police themselves very often. Girls don't and they get so shocked when someone confronts them. Like, "How DARE you!" Once in a blue moon one gets socked or hit by a car while stumbling around. Its the way the universe self corrects.

 

[bbbass]

Guys police themselves very often. Girls don't and they get so shocked when someone confronts them. Like, "How DARE you!"

I guess girls have it out with each other just fine. But I've often told a sober gal, if you were a guy you wouldn't dare behave that way because we'd have to have it on!! Guys that slap or hit women... that's another thing I can't deal with. I AM surprised how many here say they wouldn't intervene. Dang, at least call the cops!!!

 

[American123]

Many people are capable of having a disagreement that even involves shouting without it resorting to physical violence. I do, and I carry consistently. Being able to have a disagreement without killing each other is an important part of our society, if carrying a gun makes you incapable of remaining civilized, that's a problem.

Most civilized people don't run up a verbal confrontation and immediately escalate it to a physical one without any specific cause.

This is: Thug behavior 101, using physical violence as a preferred method of resolution, and he got shot for it.

The only hole in the self defense case was the perceived delay and the statements from Drejka immediately after the shooting, remove both of those from this situation and it's a much different situation. I wouldn't appreciate if I walked up and someone was shouting at my wife, but if I saw it was entirely verbal, I wouldn't run up and bull rush the person into the ground.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Is it? If you are an aggressor in FL, do you get to use the self-defense defense in your trial? If Person A is yelling at Person B, might Person C who comes on it in the middle think Person A is the aggressor and exercise defense of others? Assuming Person C is determined to be the initial aggressor (and it matters), If Person C is backing away when the gun is drawn, has Person C withdrawn from the conflict sufficiently to preclude Person A from shooting him?

If you had just shoved someone to the ground and they pulled out a gun would you "turn away"? The argument that he was turning away would carry no weight with me. That said, the defendant started the whole incident by being a jerk. He was not just minding his own business. I'm not sure he's entitled to non-aggressor status. And in any case, I'm still looking for some indication of a disparity of force. Can't see one.