Self-defense fact vs fiction article

[bbbass]

Here's an article that seems to fit in this discussion.

Does Caliber Even Matter?

I enjoyed that article! But it was a lot of math and statistics to conclude what most of us have always advised:

1. Bring a gun
2. Be skilled with your gun
1a/2a. Carry the most powerful handgun that you can conceal and shoot accurately under stress. This requires training with applied stress.
------------------------------------------------------------
3. Bring friends
3a. Bring friends with guns
4. Have hand fighting/grappling/retention skills
5. Have ground fighting skills

I would carry a bazooka if I could, or an AR, or an A10, or even a 10mm or .45ACP, but I can't. And I'm beyond the age where I want to take any more Kajukembo classes (I need old age out of shape cripple canefu. And if the fight goes to the ground, I'm just as likely to take a nap). I guess I'm just going to have to make do.



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[bbbass]

I was at the local Grocery Outlet store today, standing in line to checkout, when the cashier commended the lady in front of me for the ballcap she was wearing... I looked and she had on a red sweatshirt and a red hat. Intrigued, I asked her to show me and she turned and proudly displayed her MAGA hat. I said "Aha, I'd like to see somebody try to slap that off your head." Then said "Just let them try" to make it clear I wasn't really saying I wanted somebody to assault her. She thought for a moment, turned away, pulled the back of her sweatshirt up, and sure enough she was armed.

I said "Your not supposed to show that!" And she just smiled. When the lady was out the door the cashier asked if the lady was carrying, and I said yes. I said I was glad that people like that were around and she said she felt safer knowing that there were armed self defenders closeby. Sooooo, this guy in line behind me, about 50yrs old, maybe in construction or whatever, pipes up and says "Yeah but in Oregon all they have to do is pay the fee and point a laser at a paper and anybody can carry a loaded firearm!!!!". I quickly asked if he could provide me with the number of bystander casualties over a decade of individual concealed carry holders in Oregon. "Well no, but that's not important". Right.... I had no more time to talk about it and find out just what his objection was, but even in this gun friendly part of the state, that attitude is not unusual today.

 

[pharmseller]

 

[tac]

We were taught that you can ALWAYS find space for more ammunition. It's really hard to know that you are almost down to Condition 'KLIK' when you know that you could have carried just a few more rounds.

 

[revjen45]

When I go out (as in off the property) I carry a 9mm with 1 or 2 reload mags. "Condition White" gun (i.e. around home) is a 5-shot reevolvulator because carrying something heavier exacerbates chronic back pain.
At home I have immediate access to something more formidable.

 

[zenbreath]

I use ball in my mouse guns, .32 &.380, because I am leery of the HP's doing the job. It's all a trade off and everyone has to decide what they will do. After years of watching some of these dopers take multiple hits from an LEO's service weapon the .32 and .380 seem quite small now. So if I have to depend on one I want to at least make sure the round makes it well into the dobad. Of course biggest hope is I never have to use any of my carry guns but, if I do hopefully I have the larger caliber one with me.
As for the book I read Mass decades back and Jordan. Great info and of course always good to prepare. Thing to remember is it almost never goes the way of training. We have to re certify for hands on training every couple years using a couple different training programs. It's interesting and fun. I always tell the new people in the class this is great but, when it comes time to actually go hands on with people it never goes this way. The training is to help make sure when it's over no one is hurt if possible but the fights are always all different. Gun fights are a WHOLE different game all together. Training is great but it will almost never happen the way the class tells you. Does NOT mean its not a great idea to train though.

(Coment removed when I saw you had already covered it.)

 

[zenbreath]

Pistols are a very poor choice of firearm for defensive situations, but they ARE about the ONLY option we have for a carry firearm, so we need to make choices, and often those choices are not the best, but they should be the best for each of us! the whole caliber debate is a useless, never ending discourse that can never reach a definitive answer!
Bullets do funny things on impact, and we are trying to make them do things with in a narrow scope and we expect them to preform the exact same way in every conceivable way we would ever use them!
Having seen first hand what a bullet can do to a human body, and what should have been a lethal shot that wasn't, and what did cause death, I know there is no perfect answer! I choose the one that is going to give ME the best chances of success, and I don't give a rats behind what any court, jury, or attorney has to say on the matter! I choose to live, and I choose the best possible tool to give me the best chance I can have while carrying with on the limits of a Pistol!

A self defense shooting has 3 rounds.
Round 1 is against the perp.
Round 2 is against the prosecutor.
Round 3 is against the perp's family's lawyer.

It doesnt matter how good your strategy for rounds 2&3, if you loose in round 1.

 

[CRBMoA]

If I cannot make it home with 15+1 9mm FMJ, I had previously thought it might be my time to beam up.

Now, I have a mental image of the 2nd clip, loaded, in my nightstand.

Glad I lost 50 lbs in the last couple of years.

I got a lot of loose fitting clothes.

 

[Alexx1401]

If I cannot make it home with 15+1 9mm FMJ, I had previously thought it might be my time to beam up.

Now, I have a mental image of the 2nd clip, loaded, in my nightstand.

Glad I lost 50 lbs in the last couple of years.

I got a lot of loose fitting clothes.

I for a LONG time thought my 1911 with 8 was plenty. Then sometimes would carry 1 extra mag. When I was too lazy to hide the 1911 it was often a 5 shot 38. Often would drop another 5 in a loader in pocket. Then I started seeing more video's of these zombies soaking up multiple hits by some LEO and seeming like they would not go down. I know it's not going to happen but damn! Made me start using an 11 round carry in my .45. 5 shooters long ago got traded for 11 round 9mm that's the same size and never carry without at least one more mag. Some scary stuff watching some of these drug zombies that just will not stop.

 

[Alexx1401]

A self defense shooting has 3 rounds.
Round 1 is against the perp.
Round 2 is against the prosecutor.
Round 3 is against the perp's family's lawyer.

It doesnt matter how good your strategy for rounds 2&3, if you loose in round 1.

I like that analogy, will use it. I have long told others who wish to carry. Your biggest enemy if you ever use the gun is going to be your mouth. An amazing number of people just can not for the life of them shut the hell up after a shoot. No amount of talking and sharing is EVER going to help after the shoot. Let your lawyer talk.

 

[CRBMoA]

Is there a 'list' of Pro 2A lawyers?

I, by the nature of my work, know nearly every lawyer in my county by 1st name.

The one that has a display case full of guns in his office has TDS, so he's out!

 

[UnionMillsNW]

It's always good to have a thread like this as a reminder, from time to time, to consider possibly situations and think about why we carry certain tools in self defense.

The most important tool in self defense: our brains. Generally speaking if you find yourself in a gunfight there are a lot of things that went wrong. Try to be aware and take measures to not place yourself in danger.

Unfortunately, it happens, and no two situations are the same.

In the Marines we'd say fights are won by "Intensity and violence of action"

One of the wildest cases of self defense is the 1827 "Sandbar Fight" the American legend Jim Bowie found himself in:

"...General Cuny, who had previously fought with Crain, is recorded as having called out to him, 'Col. Crain, this is a good time to settle our difficulty.' Crain fired, missing Cuny but striking Bowie in the hip and knocking him to the ground. Cuny and Crain then exchanged fire, with Crain sustaining a flesh wound in the arm and Cuny dying from a shot to the chest or thigh.

Bowie, rising to his feet, drew his knife and charged at Crain, who struck him so hard upon the head with his empty pistol that it broke and sent Bowie to his knees. Wright appeared, drew a pistol, and shot at the fallen Bowie, missing. Wright then drew his sword cane and stabbed Bowie in the chest, but the thin blade was deflected by his sternum. As Wright attempted to pull the blade free, Bowie reached up, grabbed his shirt, and pulled him down upon the point of his Bowie knife. Wright died quickly and Bowie was shot again and stabbed by another member of the group. As Bowie stood, both Blanchard brothers fired at him, and he was struck once in the arm. Bowie spun and cut off part of Alfred's forearm; Carey fired a second shot at Bowie, but missed. As the Blanchard brothers fled, Alfred was shot "through the arm" by Jefferson Wells while Carey was shot at by Major McWorter without effect"

(Sandbar Fight - Wikipedia)

We can't all be Jim Bowie...but heaven forbid anyone find themselves in that situation I hope we can call on his fighting spirit of intensity and violence of action.