Seek discussion on bolt/lever 223 rifle choices

[Argonaut]

In fact, when they recently released the American Ranch in 7.62x39, they could have incorporated the AK magazine. But they elected to use the Mini 30 mag. Didn't hurt them, as this rifle is an absolutely red hot seller.

And now that I'm backed into a corner, many of the folks that know the Mini 14 is inaccurate, are the folks that have never shot one. I remember very well, a day when me and my friends said any AR is horribly inaccurate.

Magazine interchangeability requirements are a relatively new concern. In the old days, nobody shared magazines. Now, guns are chastised if they do not use a Glock or AR magazine, and nothing else seems to matter. Yep, Glock and AR mags are cheap and plentiful. That has not always been the case. And ironically, because of my long time affinity for Mini's, I have more Mini magazines than any other. I was pleased the Mini 30 takes a Mini 30 mag.

I bought a mini 30 when they first came out. At the time it was a legal deer rifle where the 14 was not and I really do like the 7.62X39 as a sporting caliber. Being a ballistic clone of a 30-30 isn't a bad place to occupy. But it Shot 10" 100 yard groups on a good day. I sent it back to Ruger twice to fix whatever the problem was.....they never could do it. There were some custom smiths in the Midwest that claimed to have a remedy but the repair was more than the original cost of the rifle. So I sold it. When the internet became a useful place to find information, I studied it again. I wasn't the only person with the same experiance. I have been shooting AR's for close to 50 years, even a worn out training rifle will shoot silver dollar size 100 meter groups.

 

[WAYNO]

I'm wondering if part of the reported inaccuracy of the Mini is due to its terrible ergonomics and stock sights. The ones I have shot did not shoot very accurately- or maybe it was ME not being able to shoot it accurately and not necessarily the gun. These were older .223 models with stock sights and were uncomfortable for me to shoulder. I am hoping the new PCC fits me better than a mini - and it will need to be a LOT better or it ain't gonna work for me!

That could be very well the case. If a gun doesn't fit, it's harder to shoot.

The earlier Mini's were definitely not as accurate as the newer ones with the newer barrel contour. But neither were any of the AR's in my earlier career path. But either gun was only as accurate as the supplied aperture sights and you weren't gonna hit anything smaller than you could see with your bare eyes. You could say the same thing about a Model 94 and open sights. You could hit any coyote you could see.

Now, it's common to scope any of these guns, and that's where we are gonna see an accuracy difference. I don't use a scope on any such rifle, so neither has an advantage over the other. Either gun, a coyote i can see with my bare eyes, is a dead coyote.

 

[WAYNO]

I bought a mini 30 when they first came out. At the time it was a legal deer rifle where the 14 was not and I really do like the 7.62X39 as a sporting caliber. Being a ballistic clone of a 30-30 isn't a bad place to occupy. But it Shot 10" 100 yard groups on a good day. I sent it back to Ruger twice to fix whatever the problem was.....they never could do it. There were some custom smiths in the Midwest that claimed to have a remedy but the repair was more than the original cost of the rifle. So I sold it. When the internet became a useful place to find information, I studied it again. I wasn't the only person with the same experiance. I have been shooting AR's for close to 50 years, even a worn out training rifle will shoot silver dollar size 100 meter groups.

I do not have an answer or excuse for this. Fortunately mine were much more acceptable. And I also would not have tolerated such performance. Mini 14 owners have also reported such terrible performance, but again, I was lucky to have never received such a Mini 14.

 

[41mag]

I yearn for the sweet embrace of actually liking either Mini or AR. I had a mini 14 for over 20 years & got maybe 200 rounds thru it. Just wasn't my thing.

In a frenzy of upgrading my hopes & dreams, searched high & low for some EBR I could tolerate. Finally happened into a deal that satisfied along with the particular AR. Now after about 6-7 years with it in my safe and maybe 200 rounds downrange, I still just don't care for them either. Still. Perhaps a genetic coding or some kind of cranial dysfunction makes the difference for me. I've tried but don't connect. Most I know running AR pretty much are fanboys and I'm just not on the bus. Glocks are the same to me; recognize their virtues, just don't find a way to embrace their advantages.

Maybe I'll find a Tikka guy looking for a barely used EBR.

 

[RVTECH]

You could say the same thing about a Model 94 and open sights. You could hit any coyote you could see.

No I couldn't because a mod 94 comes to my shoulder like a Stradivarius and offers me an excellent sight plane and picture and I shoot all three of mine very accurately. Granted a couple have had sight upgrades but even with the standard buckhorns I can shoot them very well - but fit and balance and proper sight picture is a big part of it.

 

[WAYNO]

I yearn for the sweet embrace of actually liking either Mini or AR. I had a mini 14 for over 20 years & got maybe 200 rounds thru it. Just wasn't my thing.

In a frenzy of upgrading my hopes & dreams, searched high & low for some EBR I could tolerate. Finally happened into a deal that satisfied along with the particular AR. Now after about 6-7 years with it in my safe and maybe 200 rounds downrange, I still just don't care for them either. Still. Perhaps a genetic coding or some kind of cranial dysfunction makes the difference for me. I've tried but don't connect. Most I know running AR pretty much are fanboys and I'm just not on the bus. Glocks are the same to me; recognize their virtues, just don't find a way to embrace their advantages.

Maybe I'll find a Tikka guy looking for a barely used EBR.

I absolutely "get" not liking the Mini or AR. I was that way for decades with any AR. I tried liking them, but just couldn't. Goes back to my Army upbringing where any AR I shot was a miserable shooter, and terribly fragile. As an ordnanceman, I saw way too many broken M-16's. It's only been in the last ten years I tried one again. Would not empty a magazine without multiple failures, but it was surprisingly accurate. Returned it to the manufacturer, they replaced the barrel, and it's been flawless ever since. I actually like this gun. Then I bought the piston-Ruger AR and I'm in love with it.

In the years when I shunned any AR, I got very close to a lot of Mini 14's, and that's why I have such an allegiance to them.

I've said this before...You and I need to sit down together and shoot some of this stuff. You might discover, like I did, that some of it is not so bad after all.

And for the record, I don't like Tikka's. I've only been exposed to one, and it was quite accurate. But i could never get past fighting the flimsy little plastic magazine into the magazine well. Took longer to seat the magazine than to fill the magazine. I've also owned and tried to like Glock's. It's not gonna happen.

Folks are territorial and sometimes quite defensive of their preferences. I am pleased we can have this discussion.

 

[41mag]

.You and I need to sit down together and shoot some of this stuff. You might discover, like I did, that some of it is not so bad after all.

let's plan sometime soon when the temps get up high enough my cerebrospinal fluid doesn't freeze up while I'm waiting for that discovery;

I think I can get to Canby under the right circumstances.

 

[Argonaut]

I absolutely "get" not liking the Mini or AR. I was that way for decades with any AR. I tried liking them, but just couldn't. Goes back to my Army upbringing where any AR I shot was a miserable shooter, and terribly fragile. It's only been in the last ten years I tried one again. Would not empty a magazine without multiple failures, but it was surprisingly accurate. Returned it to the manufacturer, they replaced the barrel, and it's been flawless ever since. I actually like this gun. Then I bought the piston-Ruger AR and I'm in love with it.

In the years when I shunned any AR, I got very close to a lot of Mini 14's, and that's why I have such an allegiance to them.

I've said this before...You and I need to sit down together and shoot some of this stuff. You might discover, like I did, that some of it is not so bad after all.

And for the record, I don't like Tikka's. I've only been exposed to one, and it was quite accurate. But i could never get past fighting the flimsy little plastic magazine into the magazine well. Took longer to seat the magazine than to fill the magazine. I've also owned and tried to like Glock's. It's not gonna happen.

Folks are territorial and sometimes quite defensive of their preferences. I am pleased we can have this discussion.

You might like my CZ 527. It is a very nice old school rifle. Good trigger, all metal, nice stock and blue. Shoots dime groups with Commercial ammo on most days.

 

[WAYNO]

You might like my CZ 527. It is a very nice old school rifle. Good trigger, all metal, nice stock and blue. Shoots dime groups with Commercial ammo on most days.

I like dime-sized groups. I am spoiled. My bolt action 7.62x39 shoots 2"+ groups and I'm disappointed. Acceptable hunting accuracy of the past is no longer acceptable.

 

[TualiPlinkster]

I've got a Kimber 84 (made in Oregon) in .223. It is my most accurate rifle, and it's not a big heavy beast either. In fact it's quite a trim little gun with that nice mini-mauser action. Leupold 2x7 compact scope, and Conetrol rings. It's definitely a keeper!

My only complaint about .223's in bolt guns is that the twist is almost always too slow for the heavy bullets we now have available.

seems like a nice company, do you have the varmint or america 84?