National School shooting data depends on how you filter the data

[Yarome]

This was interesting. The K-12 School Shooting Database folks came out and said the quiet part out loud. They are often referenced and quoted by the big anti-gun orgs and recently came out and said, [paraphrasing], "The data points depend on who you ask and how you ask the question."

The crux:


According to their data, here is the breakdown for the past 25 years:
2,032 if you count all firearm related incidents in... or... in the vicinity of a school whether shots were fired or not.
1,143 if you count incidents where at least 1 person was shot.
59 if you count 4 or more where shot
8 if you count 4 or more where killed

Not that any of these incidents are acceptable and in some cases quite horrific, but.... the anti's would have us believe that 2,032 cases represents a pandemic of mass shootings... when in reality... only 1 event every three years actually qualifies under what most people consider when hearing the term, "mass shooting"(??)

Attempting to strip the 2A rights of 333 million citizens over isolated incidents that only occur once every three years or so though doesn't "pack a lot of punch", hu. I guess the 59 figure... 2 per year... would greatly bolster their case, but still. Over the entire expanse of the U.S. and considering the population, that's not really even statistically relevant.

Heck. Last year alone there were over 43,000 fatal car crashes where 1 or more individuals lost their lives. Over 25% (13,300) were DUI related... yet we certainly don't see any pushes to raise the driving/drinking age, implement greater restrictions, impose waiting periods on car purchases, require breathalyzer ignitions be installed on all new vehicles, see lawsuits against car mfg's for their advertising practices, social media censorship on car related content, or require BGC's for DL's to ensure drivers are law abiding, responsible and mentally stable persons, hu.

Let's not even consider that driving isn't even an inalienable and constitutionally protected right.

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[bradsteen]

Also should note that "school shooting" data doesn't filter out things that happen "near" school property, outside of school hours, and/or not involving people associated with the school. For example, if two scumbags get in an argument on the sidewalk next to a school at 2AM and shoot at each other (not on school grounds, not during school hours, and not involving students of that school), they would still count it as a school shooting.

 

[Yarome]

Also should note that "school shooting" data doesn't filter out things that happen "near" school property, outside of school hours, and/or not involving people associated with the school. For example, if two scumbags get in an argument on the sidewalk next to a school at 2AM and shoot at each other (not on school grounds, not during school hours, and not involving students of that school), they would still count it as a school shooting.

Not at all unlike "mass shootings" in general. IE. On the gun violence archives they provide links to the reference material used to collect that particular data point. One that I read that stuck out in my mind the most was gang related. A car with 4 teens (unarmed) were driving by another group of gang members on the street. One of the teens on foot pulled a firearm and fired a couple of rounds that struck the passing vehicle but did not hit any of the occupants... which... startled the driver and caused him to veer off the road and crash his vehicle. All 4 teens died of impact injuries sustained in the crash.

Bada Boom!! "Mass shooting incident"!!

There were others where a firearm was present, but never fired, however... other activity related to the same incident resulted in injury to several youths that sought minor medical attention. That was also gang related and injuries were sustained from beat downs and blunt instruments.

Another "mass shooting incident"!

They anti-2A'ers certainly do live by their slogan, "by any means necessary". Or as my Grandmama used to call it, "by hook or by crook".

 

[Kcee]

They're not helping their arguments with blatant lies.

But then blatant lies have become the norm in the MSM for most all political subjects.

That's why I have never had anything to do with television broadcasts. When I thought about it later, the two times I divorced was right after the women brought televisions into the house. Commercials and MSM lies can rot your brain.

 

[TTSX]

Didn't read all that, my opinion is that a school shooting is an event where student(s)/staff member(s) are shot somewhere on school grounds during school hours. Not necessarily killed or even shot by another student. What would that be? Around 1000?

 

[Yarome]

Didn't read all that, my opinion is that a school shooting is an event where student(s)/staff member(s) are shot somewhere on school grounds during school hours. Not necessarily killed or even shot by another student. What would that be? Around 1000?

I believe that would be the "active shooter" stat. Specifically on school grounds, during school hours with students present, whether anyone is shot or not.

Does that mean a shooter is actively shooting or just someone in possession of a firearm within a school during school hours.... I don't know.

At any rate.
According to them that number is 133 in the past 25 years.
Of those, 97 were preplanned attacks.

The 1K figure includes any type of firearm related incident in or around school grounds where 1 person was shot, and I would imagine largely attributed to gang violence injuries in the vicinity of school grounds and may not involve students in any way(?) It does say that. Just my assumption.

The distance considered within a school zone seem a bit variable. Some schools there is a specific radius distance defined. A report on the subject states that most agencies define a "school zone" based on the schools walking routes. The distance from the school where school bus transportation is not provided.

When it is not clearly defined it seems the general rule of thumb is a radius of 1/2 to 1 mile, and many states use a 1/2 mile as a school and park restriction zone for registered sex offenders... so that seems consistent.


I wasn't aware of what a "school zone" actually was either, but that does seem to make those stats make a little more sense. I mean... 1/2mil from the closest school to me would encompass 100's of homes and entire neighborhoods. And we're in suburbia. Imagine the population numbers and potential for violent crime in a cityscape with apartment or tenement housing!

The potential occurrences of gang and other criminal activity happening within a "school zone", completely unrelated to students or school property seems quite massive.... and extremely deceptive to include those types of stats when we're talking about "school shootings", hu.




Did you know? In the same 25yr period over 700 people in the US have died from lightening strikes?
Does that mean a child is over three times more likely to be killed by lightening than shot while attending school?
(As long as we're going to throw in completely unrelated data into the issue)

 

[bradsteen]

When it is not clearly defined it seems the general rule of thumb is a radius of 1/2 to 1 mile, and many states use a 1/2 mile as a school and park restriction zone for registered sex offenders... so that seems consistent.

I wasn't aware of what a "school zone" actually was either, but that does seem to make those stats make a little more sense. I mean... 1/2mil from the closest school to me would encompass 100's of homes and entire neighborhoods. And we're in suburbia. Imagine the population numbers and potential for violent crime in a cityscape with apartment or tenement housing!

The potential occurrences of gang and other criminal activity happening within a "school zone", completely unrelated to students or school property seems quite massive.... and extremely deceptive to include those types of stats when we're talking about "school shootings", hu.

Considering the number of schools in densely populated urban environments, that's going to include all kinds of extra crap. No wonder the numbers are skewed.

 

[CamoDeafie]

The distance considered within a school zone seem a bit variable

"(26)The term "school zone" means—
(A)in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B)within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school."

From https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921#a_26

And related to Federal Gun-Free school zones act of 1990

GUN-FREE SCHOOL ZONES ACT OF 1990 | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/law_students/resources/on-demand/quimbee-united-states-v-lopez/

 

[bradsteen]

"(26)The term "school zone" means—
(A)in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B)within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school."

From https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921#a_26

And related to Federal Gun-Free school zones act of 1990

GUN-FREE SCHOOL ZONES ACT OF 1990 | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/law_students/resources/on-demand/quimbee-united-states-v-lopez/

So ~1/6 of a mile.

 

[CamoDeafie]

So ~1/6 of a mile.

Yup. That puts a lot of private property and public roads into Federal gun free school zones, so one has to do their due diligence going through such zones armed.

Edit. A radius of 1,000 feet means about a total of 1/3 mile extra property around the school grounds borders.

 

[Yarome]

"(26)The term "school zone" means—
(A)in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B)within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school."

From https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921#a_26

And related to Federal Gun-Free school zones act of 1990

GUN-FREE SCHOOL ZONES ACT OF 1990 | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/law_students/resources/on-demand/quimbee-united-states-v-lopez/

Good info and makes sense. Under fed law... but makes you wonder if state definitions are fully consistent. I didn't look around much, but I did notice NY says no firearms within 1300 feet.

Which leads to the question... do those stats only include those within the feebs defined zone or by state statues that might still be a reported crime of "possession of a firearm in a school zone" by their own definition(?)

Regardless, even at 1000 ft that can encompass a LOT of a local neighborhood that may see other criminal activity completely unrelated to "school shootings".

Here's a question. If a felon is arrested in his home... just a block or two from a school... and a firearm is discovered... is that also a "school shooting" for statistical purposes(?)

I can see how easy it might be to get real creative with those stats, hu.

So ~1/6 of a mile.

Closer to 1/5, but who's counting.

 

[saxon]

somewhere i have a copy of a list of "school" shootings and you would not be surprised that if a shooting happens near a school,
it is counted as a school shooting, i mean like 3 or 4 blocks away because it was near a school, it counts even if outside the "school zone".

 

[bradsteen]

Good info and makes sense. Under fed law... but makes you wonder if state definitions are fully consistent. I didn't look around much, but I did notice NY says no firearms within 1300 feet.

Which leads to the question... do those stats only include those within the feebs defined zone or by state statues that might still be a reported crime of "possession of a firearm in a school zone" by their own definition(?)

Regardless, even at 1000 ft that can encompass a LOT of a local neighborhood that may see other criminal activity completely unrelated to "school shootings".

Here's a question. If a felon is arrested in his home... just a block or two from a school... and a firearm is discovered... is that also a "school shooting" for statistical purposes(?)

I can see how easy it might be to get real creative with those stats, hu.



Closer to 1/5, but who's counting.

You're right - for some reason I was thinking 5820 feet in a mile instead of 5280. I don't have dyslexia, but apparently my memory does!

 

[Yarome]

You're right - for some reason I was thinking 5820 feet in a mile instead of 5280. I don't have dyslexia, but apparently my memory does!

I dunno about dyslexia, but I am aware that when some people are alone and having a mental dialogue... the answer largely depend on who you ask.
Hu, @solv3nt .

 

[solv3nt]

I dunno about dyslexia, but I am aware that when some people are alone and having a mental dialogue... the answer largely depend on who you ask.
Hu, @solv3nt .

I don't talk to myself. Out loud normally.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I dunno about dyslexia

Isn't much to know, really all you need to do is remember that dyslexics are teople poo

 

[Diamondback]

They're actually making a Federal case of this in Montana over a dude whose home is across the street from a school where he and his elderly mom drew targeting by a pXXX-stain stalker.

 

[Yarome]

Isn't much to know, really all you need to do is remember that dyslexics are teople poo

C'mon, man! I'm not that stupid.
I'm fully aware dyslexia isn't a person. Either is siri!

 

[lucusloc]

It has been widely reported that mass shooting statistics of all kinds are wildly overinflated to drive more fear and action on gun control. When you actually start trying to normalize the data in appropriate ways you find that the U.S. compares very favorably with Europe for these kings of events, even with the wildly disparate philosophies when it comes to guns laws and ownership. The antis lie, who knew?

 

[solv3nt]

It has been widely reported that mass shooting statistics of all kinds are wildly overinflated to drive more fear and action on gun control. When you actually start trying to normalize the data in appropriate ways you find that the U.S. compares very favorably with Europe for these kings of events, even with the wildly disparate philosophies when it comes to guns laws and ownership. The antis lie, who knew?

Too bad they don't have an ignore button.