Other State School Resource Officer's gun accidentally fires in cafeteria

[Marine Airedale]

In a sturdy Kydex holster that fully enclosed the trigger guard, guns are not going to go off "accidentally." There are a lot of cheap holster out there that are just terrible from a safety standpoint. Carrying without a round in the chamber has its place, however, for daily carry out and about where the moment you may need it in self defense you are already 'behind the ball' because you are responding to a what is likely a surprise attack from an aggressor, not a moment to lose there. Out in public, chambered all day.

Compared to the situation I previous used, with being a teacher in a school, while spending 90% of my day in my classroom. The likelihood that I would be unable to quickly chamber a round and respond to something in the school is insignificant compared to ensuring something didn't occur to cause an AD/ND.

Assuming you have use of your support hand 'eh?

 

[bbbass]

Might want to educate oneself before spouting off and making a fool of oneself... Just sayin'

Why? Nobody else does!!!

I have a Rem700 and never had an issie with the trigger. But it gave me a reason to buy a Timney

Well, in particular there was a problem with the X-Mark Pro® ("XMP®") triggers, manufactured from May 1, 2006 to April 9, 2014. and there was a recall. However, there were lawsuits based on other incidents of rifles with legacy triggers. IDK. I had several Rem 700s and never had a single problem, but others have stated differently. Glad you got yerself a Timney, but I really liked the stock legacy 700 trigger. It was the best feature IMO.

It is a new ballgame when junior goes for the teacher's firearm.

Retention holster...

 

[dcfranzen]

Retention holster...

Teachers aren't supposed to use physical force against their scholars so new rules will have to be put in place.

 

[bbbass]

Teachers aren't supposed to use physical force against their scholars so new rules will have to be put in place.

True. Although as it applies to defending against a physical attack, I doubt those rules come into play. And as it applies to defending a retention holster, physical force not an apt description for putting a hand over the thumb strap or whatever.

 

[ARFrog]

As a teacher who daily carries but not at work (because laws are dumb) If I was allowed to carry at work, it would be loaded magazine, empty chamber.

#1 the likelihood of me needing to use the firearm to prevent an active shooter is astronomically low. #2 The time it would take to rack the slide is inconsequential compared to 100% ensuring an AD would never occur.

Unless there was in fact a mechanical failure of the sig (can't blame the carrier)
It sounds like a there was some "tactical derp" taking place.

Seems like a "teachable moment" is present...

- loaded or unloaded chamber
- type of holster - with trigger covered
- type of handgun - Might it be prudent out of an abundance of caution to use something with a safety or an additional anti-firing mechanism like XD's have in the hand guard
- establishing a training syllabus that accurately reflects the environment of a school. Schools are not a static environment where everything is cleanly happening directly in front of you or a standard law enforcement or military environment
- ???

Personally, I would not be especially comfortable with a "fast draw - quick trigger" approach in a crowded school environment. There are too many chances for unintended consequences - drop, catch on clothing or other objects, curious kids who come up behind you and foolishly touch, ???

Do not misunderstand me, I believe that schools should have the option to have armed individuals on-site. However, I also believe that the armed individuals should be trained and prepared for the environment that they work in.

 

[American123]

Assuming you have use of your support hand 'eh?

No, I'm assuming that if necessary I could rack the slide using my rear sights from my belt if I didn't have the use of my support hand. It's rather easy to do.

I fully advocate for chambered carry as a daily practice and I do with a G17, but I'm stating as a teacher, if allowed to carry in a school, I'd personally choose to carry unchambered for reasons I have already stated. The likelihood of responding to an active shooter event happening (ever) is paltry compared to all the scenarios that could cause an AD/ND in a school setting.

 

[American123]

Teachers aren't supposed to use physical force against their scholars so new rules will have to be put in place.

Grey area, teachers are allowed to prevent serious harm from being inflicted on students selves or others. If little Johnny is about to jump out of a 3rd story window I don't have to sit and watch and say "please don't" I could snatch him out of the window, similarly if a student is stabbing another student, I don't have to wait for them to be tired and stop, I can intervene.

But you are right, I'm not allowed to use physical force against students in combative or coercive manners except to prevent serious injury to themselves or others.

 

[dcfranzen]

I mentioned the need for new rules because the teacher is no longer defending themselves or others from a violent attack, but their weapon too. I agree that Condition 3 carry is the safest option for on-campus carry. It would be the only carry condition allowed for staff and SRO if I were the school district superintendent.

 

[StacattoP]

Maybe a sigp320 without the striker/trigger update

 

[bbbass]

I mentioned the need for new rules because the teacher is no longer defending themselves or others from a violent attack, but their weapon too.

Teaching is a rule heavy environment, that's for sure. Like the Russkies, they have rules for taking a dump.

 

[billstaf]

What kind of pistol can discharge when holstered? Is there some reason that a school resource officer would need any pistol that does not utilize a safety? I have had a couple of negligent pistol discharges in my life, and in both instances it was because I somehow stuck my fat finger inside the trigger guard when I shouldn't have. Pure carelessness on my part and a hard lesson learned.

 

[dcfranzen]

What kind of pistol can discharge when holstered?

To answer your question. It was reported to be a Sig 9mm. The folks on the Sig Forum were commenting that the county switched from Glock to Sig for .... Safety reasons.

The county switched to the Sig P320 and commenters close to the department say they had all their P320s worked on from the recall.

They department isn't saying anything about the holster which could have been a poor design that does not completely cover the trigger guard. This is a problem with some of the holsters design for guns with attached lights to permit a smooth draw.

Now, without a completely covered trigger guard, a bit of clothing, drawstring, or strapping from other equipment can get into the guard and caught up on the trigger and discharge the weapon.

So, one possible answer might be, a striker-fired pistol in condition 1 holstered in a poorly designed, unsafe holster.

 

[3914]

"It is a new ballgame when junior goes for the teacher's firearm. Another concern is how do first responders tell the good guy from the bad guy."

Trusting that the firearm is securely and completely.....concealed, how does junior even know teach has a firearm. And while no educator deserves to be assaulted, you're not pulling out a weapon short of full on fear for your life. And when first responders fiiinnnallly arrive, hopefully before junior or teach are hurt, the firearm is......... concealed.
Teachers deserve to be able to protect themselves and accept the responsibility of protecting others if they choose. This is not a knock on cops (I love 'em) but no reason teachers couldn't qualify just the same.

 

[Caveman Jim]

'less'n it's a Rem 700 with that extra special trigger.

Wait da minute, I got gyped then...

 

[ARFrog]

Trusting that the firearm is securely and completely.....concealed, how does junior even know teach has a firearm.

My experience tells me that junior and his/her peers are very, very observant and that the school grapevine is almost instantaneous.

 

[awshoot]

What kind of pistol can discharge when holstered? Is there some reason that a school resource officer would need any pistol that does not utilize a safety? I have had a couple of negligent pistol discharges in my life, and in both instances it was because I somehow stuck my fat finger inside the trigger guard when I shouldn't have. Pure carelessness on my part and a hard lesson learned.

I'm a fan of guns with a decocking safety. I know there are lots of reasons people don't like them, but for me, I know that I can make a mistake and I appreciate the extra little flick of my thumb required before getting to the first double action trigger pull. Personally, I feel better with three layers: holster, safety, DA first pull. I think back to that dancing FBI agent -- obviously the first thing is to not be a bonehead and had he not been doing something stupid, and was careful about his trigger finger, nothing bad would have happened. But who can say they've never pulled a bonehead move either intentionally or accidentally? One more layer would have saved his career.

 

[3914]

'Observed' is not concealed. Please suggest a more viable, effective plan to instantly protect the lives of students and entire staff. And I'm sincere......please suggest one. I want nothing more than to have no or fewer lives lost in this manner.
Personally, I support plain clothes over uniformed in applications such as schools, airlines, banks, etc. Lastly, in direct response to this thread, as many have alluded to it would be fair and educational to know what caused the discharge.

 

[ARFrog]

'Observed' is not concealed. Please suggest a more viable, effective plan to instantly protect the lives of students and entire staff. And I'm sincere......please suggest one. I want nothing more than to have no or fewer lives lost in this manner.
Personally, I support plain clothes over uniformed in applications such as schools, airlines, banks, etc. Lastly, in direct response to this thread, as many have alluded to it would be fair and educational to know what caused the discharge.

Meaning no disrespect but IMO there is no such as 100% concealed - 100% of the time. Additionally, I believe there is "deterrent value" in both concealed (think Sky Marshall) and observed (think open carry.)

 

[titsonritz]

I'm a fan of guns with a decocking safety. I know there are lots of reasons people don't like them, but for me, I know that I can make a mistake and I appreciate the extra little flick of my thumb required before getting to the first double action trigger pull. Personally, I feel better with three layers: holster, safety, DA first pull. I think back to that dancing FBI agent -- obviously the first thing is to not be a bonehead and had he not been doing something stupid, and was careful about his trigger finger, nothing bad would have happened. But who can say they've never pulled a bonehead move either intentionally or accidentally? One more layer would have saved his career.

You can't fix stupid with hardware any more than you can stop murder by illegalizing guns.

 

[KaniksuKidd]

i can vouch for that. seen it happen in person twice.

+1 for me too. A friend brought his Rem 700 in 7mm Mag over because "the trigger's not working right". It sure wasn't. Pressed it, nothing happened for about 5 seconds, and then it discharged. Have never owned a Rem 700 since then and that was in 1987!