Sanity Check - AR Headspace Issue

[v0lcom13sn0w]

ive also had an out of spec (too long) gas tube. does it go into battery with no round in chamber?

 

[CuddlyBear]

ive also had an out of spec (too long) gas tube. does it go into battery with no round in chamber?

Yes. The gun runs fine on factory ammo.

It is a .223 wylde, the other rifle is 5.56

 

[Mygrainman]

We discussed this some here...
Has anyone ever done this?

Check my post #23 for pictures of my issue, (and more than likely yours)
And how I deal with it.
Might be useful for you.

 

[Mygrainman]

By the way... I had that same BA Barrel... possibly the most accurate I've ever had. I'd put it on par with my Noveske 18" that costs more than twice as much. I was getting 1/2 moa or better with it using off the shelf 55g ball ammo.
My brother has it now, and refuses to sell it back to me.

 

[CuddlyBear]

By the way... I had that same BA Barrel... possibly the most accurate I've ever had. I'd put it on par with my Noveske 18" that costs more than twice as much. I was getting 1/2 moa or better with it using off the shelf 55g ball ammo.
My brother has it now, and refuses to sell it back to me.

I'm looking forward to getting proper glass and stretching it's legs

 

[P7M13]

What kind of press are you loading it on?
I ran into this problem. In my case, a LnL where the sizer die moved in the press. All it takes is 4 mils, and you're out.
A cartridge headspace gauge quickly identifies the ones that won't fit right. You can check loaded ammo as well as sized brass.
A go gauge helps. Adding a piece of cellophane tape on the end makes it a "no go".
Make sure you have a SB die for an AR

 

[Mygrainman]

What kind of press are you loading it on?
I ran into this problem. In my case, a LnL where the sizer die moved in the press. All it takes is 4 mils, and you're out.
A cartridge headspace gauge quickly identifies the ones that won't fit right. You can check loaded ammo as well as sized brass.
A go gauge helps. Adding a piece of cellophane tape on the end makes it a "no go".
Make sure you have a SB die for an AR

Please elaborate on this tape the go gage trick... I have a go, but not a no go.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Please elaborate on this tape the go gage trick... I have a go, but not a no go.

I've heard it used with masking tape. One layer of masking tape on the case head should add approximately 0.005".

 

[P7M13]

Please elaborate on this tape the go gage trick... I have a go, but not a no go.

qualifier and caveats:

• Not a gunsmith. Did spend many years as a welder, machinist, and then ~15 years designing robots and other precision metal equipment.
• The following sentence does not apply to many of you on this board. If you don't normally do precision assembly, build your own ARs with several under your belt, or are uncomfortable with the notion of removing the head on your car or changing gear ratios in the tranny, don't attempt this. Hand your gear over to a gunsmith. Your fingers and eyes will reward you by staying attached and functional.

The difference between a go gauge and a no-go gauge is 4 thousandths of an inch, also noted as 4 mils or 0.004" For most situations, placing a piece of cellophane tape on the end suffices to render a go gage into a no-go. Stick out too far, which is what the go gauge checks for, and you risk case head separation. I don't use masking tape because the thickness is less consistent across manufacturers and types (black / green / blue / beige).
This works fine for a bolt rifle where you are trying to ease the bolt closed. If you have a go gauge for one of your bolt action rifles, check it for yourself: take the go gauge, add a piece of cellophane to the end and trim off any excess with an X-acto. Then try to close the bolt. Any resistance beyond normal closing, and you have "no-go" condition.
For an AR, I would do the test by hand, with the upper removed from the lower, pushing the BCG in with your thumb. With the taped go gauge, you should not be able to have the lugs engage and lock.
If you try this with the AR assembled, the buffer spring and buffer will provide enough force and inertia to very possibly compress the tape, given the plasticity of cellophane, and make it look like it's still a "go" where the unforgiving no-go gauge would not.
The most prudent way is to buy a no-go gauge. Steel is mighty hard to foul-up. Tape? well, there's the human element involved.
I've bought gauges from Pacific Tool & Gauge also Grizzly Industrial. I have found both companies to be expeditious. If PTG doesn't have it, I'll check Grizzly next, then elsewhere.

Why you use a no-go: Note, a case that is sloppy in the chamber is also dangerous and could cause case rupture (neck, shoulder or body). If the go gauge works, and then the no-go gauge works, you have a chamber that is too deep and you need your lug ring reattached. You can measure how much "too deep" it is but it's a PITA to do this, needs specialized feeler gauges, it will always be an unsafe gun with OTS ammunition, and best left to a gunsmith or the manufacturer.
HTH.
[edit to add], @Mygrainman , IIRC, you have enough mad skillz to do all the above easily. I wrote this for the general reader. Give an inch....Boom! Don't want that....

 

[Stomper]

By the way... I had that same BA Barrel... possibly the most accurate I've ever had. I'd put it on par with my Noveske 18" that costs more than twice as much. I was getting 1/2 moa or better with it using off the shelf 55g ball ammo.
My brother has it now, and refuses to sell it back to me.

That.... BASTIGE!!!

 

[Mygrainman]

That.... BASTIGE!!!

That's why you should never sell guns to friends or family. Every time you go shooting together It's like seeing an Ex that you never got over, having her whisper "remember when" in your ear during a few brief embraces, but never getting to take her back home... only worse.

 

[titsonritz]

As far as getting a set of headspace gauges, do I need Go, No Go, and Field? Or would just picking up the Go and No Go gauges be sufficient?

Per the military tech manual the only gage needed is a field gage.

 

[CuddlyBear]

That's why you should never sell guns

FTFY!

 

[Velzey]

Maybe I could take some 400-grit to the bolt face and knock a little of the excess phosphate down?

No, don't do that

 

[DirectDrive]

Per the military tech manual the only gage needed is a field gage.

That's right.
I use that one and Brownell's has it for $16
Colt M16/AR15 Field Gauge: 1.4736"
If it doesn't close on the Field Gauge and will chamber a factory round I'm good.

Some want to see if their rifle is within "new rifle spec" and will buy more gauges.
I posted the gauge lengths on the first page.

Also no one has posted procedure.
Unless you have a rare USGI Field Gauge with the ejector cut out, you have to disassemble the bolt for the test
And it's done with finger pressure. You don't slam the bolt home or you will destroy your gauge,

 

[Caveman Jim]

Hey guys, having an issue with a new AR-15 I just put together and wanted to run it by the community.

Mods - feel free to move this to the reloading sub if you think that's a better place for it.

The gun-
Anderson Lower/Aero Upper
Ballistic Advantage 18" .223 Wylde 1/8 Fluted SPR Barrel, rifle gas
PSA Premium BCG (HPT/MPI)
A2 stock/rifle-length receiver extension and rifle-size buffer

Factory .223 ammunition, in this case Wolf Gold .223, chambers and runs fine.

My .223 hand loads are giving me an issue. They are mixed headstamp brass, 24gr of H335 under a 55gr Hornady FMJ at 2.200" and a S&B SR primer. This load runs just fine as a light plinking load in all my other rifles with 5.56 chambers and my mini-14 (.223).

I had several hand loads that either refused to chamber or chambered with resistance in the rifle in question. After shooting I noticed an abnormal/excessive amount of brass buildup on the bolt face, and some of the spent brass had rings around the shoulder. Several cartridges in particular wouldn't chamber at all - I set these aside and measured them when I came home from the range. I observed that the top of the shoulder of the case, measured from the case head, was about .01" longer than the spec listed in my Lyman 49th edition manual. The rounds in question chamber and cycle freely by hand in my 5.56 chambered rifle.

I observed that this particular BCG from PSA has a thicker than usual phosphate coating.

My theory is that, for one, I did not adequately set the shoulders back on these cartridges when reloading them. This is being compounded by the tighter chamber in this particular gun, and the thicker phosphate coating on the bolt slightly reducing overall headspace.

My plan of action is to:
1. Allocate my stock of these handloads to the rifles that chamber it normally, and stop shooting them in this gun
2. Purchase a .223 case gauge and check my brass that will go into this gun going forward


Is this the right approach? Is there anything I'm missing here? Am I going to blow my hands off? Is shrimp the worst top ramen flavor?

#2 is a must for me.

 

[titsonritz]

That's right.
I use that one and Brownell's has it for $16
Colt M16/AR15 Field Gauge: 1.4736"
If it doesn't close on the Field Gauge and will chamber a factory round I'm good.

Some want to see if their rifle is within "new rifle spec" and will buy more gauges.
I posted the gauge lengths on the first page.

Also no one has posted procedure.
Unless you have a rare USGI Field Gauge with the ejector cut out, you have to disassemble the bolt for the test
And it's done with finger pressure. You don't slam the bolt home or you will destroy your gauge,

To clarify, the bolt does not need to be completely disassembled, but the ejector must be removed, however, one can Dremel a notch in the Brownells Field Gage to eliminate that need and make it similar the GI version.

 

[DirectDrive]

To clarify, the bolt does not need to be completely disassembled, but the ejector must be removed, however, one can Dremel a notch in the Brownells Field Gage to eliminate that need and make it similar the GI version.

For new guys it's better to just use a bare bolt and not worry about making that cut.
It's easier to pull the ejector unless you are checking many rifles and don't have time to deal with removing ejectors.

 

[titsonritz]

For new guys it's better to just use a bare bolt and not worry about making that cut.
It's easier to pull the ejector unless you are checking many rifles and don't have time to deal with removing ejectors.

I agree.

 

[Garrytopshop]

Hey guys, having an issue with a new AR-15 I just put together and wanted to run it by the community.

Mods - feel free to move this to the reloading sub if you think that's a better place for it.

The gun-
Anderson Lower/Aero Upper
Ballistic Advantage 18" .223 Wylde 1/8 Fluted SPR Barrel, rifle gas
PSA Premium BCG (HPT/MPI)
A2 stock/rifle-length receiver extension and rifle-size buffer

Factory .223 ammunition, in this case Wolf Gold .223, chambers and runs fine.

My .223 hand loads are giving me an issue. They are mixed headstamp brass, 24gr of H335 under a 55gr Hornady FMJ at 2.200" and a S&B SR primer. This load runs just fine as a light plinking load in all my other rifles with 5.56 chambers and my mini-14 (.223).

I had several hand loads that either refused to chamber or chambered with resistance in the rifle in question. After shooting I noticed an abnormal/excessive amount of brass buildup on the bolt face, and some of the spent brass had rings around the shoulder. Several cartridges in particular wouldn't chamber at all - I set these aside and measured them when I came home from the range. I observed that the top of the shoulder of the case, measured from the case head, was about .01" longer than the spec listed in my Lyman 49th edition manual. The rounds in question chamber and cycle freely by hand in my 5.56 chambered rifle.

I observed that this particular BCG from PSA has a thicker than usual phosphate coating.

My theory is that, for one, I did not adequately set the shoulders back on these cartridges when reloading them. This is being compounded by the tighter chamber in this particular gun, and the thicker phosphate coating on the bolt slightly reducing overall headspace.

My plan of action is to:
1. Allocate my stock of these handloads to the rifles that chamber it normally, and stop shooting them in this gun
2. Purchase a .223 case gauge and check my brass that will go into this gun going forward


Is this the right approach? Is there anything I'm missing here? Am I going to blow my hands off? Is shrimp the worst top ramen flavor?

Garrytopshop here, Our Shop have built hundreds of AR Tops and We headspace everyone, We also test fire every AR Top, When I went to school some 50+ years ago we were told that correct head spacing is very important and should not be over looked.