Running to "Red" States - a Good Idea?

[etrain16]

When it comes to protecting gun rights, some here have advocated leaving the PNW for solid red states like ID, MT, TX, etc. I've noted before that those states are just a few steps behind places like the PNW as they are showing signs of turning blue themselves. I've even pondered if it isn't part of a plan to spread anti-gun culture across the US (among other things, but this is a gun site, so we'll stick with that topic).

Well guess what popped up on Twitter. A politician advocating groups of blue voters moving to red states to force a change in those states. My suspicion is confirmed. Not to say this is a huge coordinated event at this time, but be aware, no state out there is safe if the anti's think they can flip it for their cause. And they really only need about 51% to turn things around. Even in places like ID, MT and TX, we're seeing changes in certain areas.

Can we really run away to protect our rights? Or do we need to stay where we are and fight? Just something to think about. Maybe it won't affect you today, but 10 years from now, 20?

(@Joe Link I hope this thread is okay, I think it's important to discuss the changes in this country that will impact gun rights in states not just in the PNW, but around the country. Perhaps move to another area of the forum, if more appropriate)

Take a look at these:

Read More

 

[cigars]

Well now it's official. We live in two different worlds here. I wonder what the breaking point will be?

 

[Stomper]

When it comes to protecting gun rights, some here have advocated leaving the PNW for solid red states like ID, MT, TX, etc. I've noted before that those states are just a few steps behind places like the PNW as they are showing signs of turning blue themselves. I've even pondered if it isn't part of a plan to spread anti-gun culture across the US (among other things, but this is a gun site, so we'll stick with that topic).

Well guess what popped up on Twitter. A politician advocating groups of blue voters moving to red states to force a change in those states. My suspicion is confirmed. Not to say this is a huge coordinated event at this time, but be aware, no state out there is safe if the anti's think they can flip it for their cause. And they really only need about 51% to turn things around. Even in places like ID, MT and TX, we're seeing changes in certain areas.

Can we really run away to protect our rights? Or do we need to stay where we are and fight? Just something to think about. Maybe it won't affect you today, but 10 years from now, 20?

(@Joe Link I hope this thread is okay, I think it's important to discuss the changes in this country that will impact gun rights in states not just in the PNW, but around the country. Perhaps move to another area of the forum, if more appropriate)

Take a look at these:

View attachment 518711

View attachment 518712

View attachment 518713

View attachment 518714

View attachment 518715

What does that actually mean, "stay where we are and fight"? You aren't going to change people with the mindset displayed in those tweets (BTW- I'm "amused" how they project the very thing "their side" does upon the "red side") and they sure as HELL aren't going to change me into a progressive... even at gun-point.

So again, "fight"? Fight within a stacked political and legal system (where the constituency, politicians, and judges are all bought and paid for) while living under progressive oppression? Unless you mean literally fight (as in warfare and mayhem), I don't see anything changing anytime soon.


Fight.....

 

[etrain16]

What does that actually mean, "stay where we are and fight"? You aren't going to change people with the mindset displayed in those tweets (BTW- I'm "amused" how they project the very thing "their side" does upon the "red side") and they sure as HELL aren't going to change me into a progressive... even at gun-point.

So again, "fight"? Fight within a stacked political and legal system (where the constituency, politicians, and judges are all bought and paid for) while living under progressive oppression? Unless you mean literally fight (as in warfare and mayhem), I don't see anything changing anytime soon.


Fight.....

What I mean is going after those votes that aren't being cast in the first place. Reach out, one by one and find out who we can influence, to get them active, to vote. My wife and I managed to get several folks to vote this past election, who had never voted in their lives. It can be done. There are enough votes available out there that are being wasted by not being cast on our side of things that could actually impact the elections here. If 10,000 people could each get just one more person to vote on our behalf, it could change the tide here. Flip a few seats in the Oregon legislature and you have a chance to at least stall/gridlock future anti-gun bills. We're not that far away. For my part, I'm engaging folks outside NWFA to encourage them to vote and get active in educating themselves about their rights. We are also helping to educate the next generation, and we are seeing that the next generation is showing signs of perhaps swinging back in our direction. If that's the case, they need our help to make the swing.

Will it happen soon? Of course not. But OR didn't change over night. The leftist play the long game, that's where we fall down. I'm working not just for my rights, but my daughter's. Maybe she will see the benefit of that work, even if I don't.

The other point being is that the other side is actively working against us to turn other states into places like OR and WA. If our only plan is to run to states that are currently safe, leaving even fewer pro-gun folks behind in places like OR and WA, then we just concede to them, while they are actively working to change those 'safe' states into blue states as well. There is no place we can run to if we don't believe we can fight this, because the fight will be there too.

Maybe I'm too idealistic or optimistic, but looking at the numbers, the votes are there. The question is how to get those votes cast, and cast in our favor.

 

[mkwerx]

Too much apathy to turn it around, 40 years of progressive beatdowns have NW conservatives staying low until they die or retire out of state.

At some point it becomes quality of life. With Oregon morphing into California, it is not just gun rights erroding. Its buying power, opportunity, and quality of life.

You need to make over 100k a year to realistically buy a home here now. So you can rent a house maybe, or be forced into ever more expensive apartments.

As people get tired of the squeeze of the city, the wealthier ones are moving outward, hoovering up affordable property in small towns, but bringing the same BS that they escaped from. The developers are literally doubling the sizes of some small towns. Can't fight that crap.

Californians have been fighting to keep or regain their rights for decades - the result is more oppression. Its coming here. Unless you are willing to flaunt the law and risk loosing it all, or to rally an armed march on Salem and use the guns to oust the politicians (never going to happen) - theres no fight to be fought. Washington has had the worst of its new gun laws put in place by popular vote in metro counties. Sound familiar? It. Is. Coming.

So one can stay, live by the lefts ever intolerant nonsense, or you can add a conservative vote elsewhere.

The thing with states like Texas, Montana, and Idaho is that the climates will keep a lot of urchins in check. You may be able to stay in Oregon and move to a rural eastern or southern county, but even there, State government minions have a presence.

 

[albin25]

Actually, Blue States are in desperate need of some Red State "migrant caravans" to crash their borders! .

Idaho and Montana could follow the "South American Plan" and empty prisons/jails/loony bins and get rid of gang members/drug addicts/chronic homeless/sex offenders, load them on buses, have the Media describe them as primarily women and children desperately seeking asylum ....
.... The Left Coast Liberals can "sanctuary" and "Virtue Signal" all they want, and, We'd save a fortune!
WIN WIN

 

[11Charlie]

Funny that this thread came up. I think good points are made on both sides. I for one will have to stay and fight because of my job and situation in life.

I think that @etrain16 brings up some valuable points. Yes we all work and have busy lives and are the ones that support the people out protesting because they don't work and leach off of the government. But we can make a difference and it takes minutes a day or one conversation a month to a person that you run into to help make that change.

People every day are fighting for our rights. @Sporting Systems went to the capital yesterday to fight for us here in Washington. @Caveman Jim is a huge advocate and fights with every breath he has. @Joe Link has given us this site to help voice our opinions.

I know that I am missing a bunch of people. But if we don't stand together and work together we are done. I for one will not lay down and go quietly. We are loosing this battle because we don't stand together on the smallest of things!! If we don't stop arguing among ourselves how can we be a united front!!!

 

[etrain16]

Actually, Blue States are in desperate need of some Red State "migrant caravans" to crash their borders! .

Idaho and Montana could follow the "South American Plan" and empty prisons/jails/loony bins and get rid of gang members/drug addicts/chronic homeless/sex offenders, load them on buses, have the Media describe them as primarily women and children desperately seeking asylum ....
.... The Left Coast Liberals can "sanctuary" and "Virtue Signal" all they want, and, We'd save a fortune!
WIN WIN

Agreed, but as I noted above in my OP, blue voters are moving to states like ID already too. Are the red voters out-pacing the blue voters? In some articles I've read in the past year, that may not be the case. So the point of my OP is, can those solidly red states remain red? Or will they eventually fall too? The party of the anti's recognize, long term, they have to turn more states if they want to take control of the country at the federal level. Every state that can contribute another blue senator is a win for them.

 

[clearconscience]

Yeah your better off supplying yourself and waiting for the insurgency.

The blue wave is slow but it's rolling.
Won't be longer before TX falls, and MT somehow isn't far off. ID may be the last safe place, but I'm sure the left has plans to ship for migrants there to even out the vote.

Don't be surprised when the migrant caravan gets to stay in the US.
The invasion is here

 

[etrain16]

Too much apathy to turn it around, 40 years of progressive beatdowns have NW conservatives staying low until they die or retire out of state.

At some point it becomes quality of life. With Oregon morphing into California, it is not just gun rights erroding. Its buying power, opportunity, and quality of life.

You need to make over 100k a year to realistically buy a home here now. So you can rent a house maybe, or be forced into ever more expensive apartments.

As people get tired of the squeeze of the city, the wealthier ones are moving outward, hoovering up affordable property in small towns, but bringing the same BS that they escaped from. The developers are literally doubling the sizes of some small towns. Can't fight that crap.

Californians have been fighting to keep or regain their rights for decades - the result is more oppression. Its coming here. Unless you are willing to flaunt the law and risk loosing it all, or to rally an armed march on Salem and use the guns to oust the politicians (never going to happen) - theres no fight to be fought. Washington has had the worst of its new gun laws put in place by popular vote in metro counties. Sound familiar? It. Is. Coming.

So one can stay, live by the lefts ever intolerant nonsense, or you can add a conservative vote elsewhere.

The thing with states like Texas, Montana, and Idaho is that the climates will keep a lot of urchins in check. You may be able to stay in Oregon and move to a rural eastern or southern county, but even there, State government minions have a presence.

Again, I think it comes down to this - is there anyplace else you can go, where you can be assured it will remain red? Democrats want to flip the red states, and people are willing to relocate to those states to help in that cause. Look at Colorado. It used to be reliably red, but no longer. AZ, a formerly reliable red state, just elected it's first Dem senator in I don't know how long. Ted Cruz barely won in Texas. Montana has had a solidly leftist senator (John Testor) since 2007. I just really don't know that there is a solid place to escape. Maybe in the short term, but perhaps not the long term.

 

[mkwerx]

It took Dems 40 years to ruin Oregon and California. Texas is like other states, the big metro areas are full of welfare leeches and crooked politicians. Houston proper is overrun by dems, but outside the big city its red. They may flip in 15 years, but maybe not. They solidly reelected their governor, lt governor, and other key power positions controlled by consrtvatives.

Montana is more liberal, and has been. Same with Colorado. But old school classic liberalism, not progressive socialist antiamericanism.

Idaho is Idaho.

Sometimes a tactical retreat is better than getting overrun and captured.

There may be no place the progressive cancer won't infect, and it may come a time the only way to stop them is literally to kill them in a shooting war. I hope that day never dawns.

I was born here but will, God willing, not die in this state. I am stuck here for short term, my wife's parents are not in good health, and I have business entanglements. But we decided that by 2020 we won't be Oregon residents regardless. There are still solidly conservative states not trying to trample on our liberty, where a couple making 70k can still reasonably buy a home, where you could put a bumper sticker on your car for a republican candidate without vandalism...

Utah is on the short list, as is Idaho. Texas is on the list, but my dad is even thinking of moving out from there to find a cooler climate. Even a purple state with normal values is not out - places like Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma. I have family in the later two places. We have not settled on a place just yet, but I really like CDA in Idaho, and St George in Utah. But we will see.

 

[11Charlie]

My plan has always been to move to AZ to be closer to the kids and grand kids. That plan may change in the future depending how things go. If I do it will be out of town away from the big city's.

 

[No_Regerts]

Only population centers are blue. Cut off freeways, railways, and blockade ports. Keep the food and supplies out, keep the people in. Let it eat itself.

 

[Geardo]

Well those people are creepy.

I'll just say this. These boots were not made for running. Thought I had found a refuge here. Not leaving again to watch it all go to hell.

Progressivism is a cancer/virus. The white people arrive first, programmed into feeling huge amounts of white guilt, and equipped with enough money to weather the disaster they wreck on the economy, they raise the price of living while creating a perfect incubation chamber for lots of disadvantaged "minorities" via social welfare and high cost of living, with less job oppurtunities. Once the ranks of minorities hit critical mass to keep an area blue, the whites "flee" again and start the process over.

Whites are being systematically replaced, and with them will go any notion of freedom or personal liberty and responsibility. I can't find the chart, but we have been on a downward slide since the 60's and are at about 65% white right now.

Minorites vote overwhelmingly blue. Pro gun control, pro welfare, etc.

 

[Stomper]

There's three ways to resolve political differences... the soap box, the ballot box, and the cartridge box..... for better or worse, I estimate we've gone through about 1.5-1.75 of the three options.

 

[2506]

2018's Most & Least Federally Dependent States

#43, #45, and #49 all look good to me

 

[11Charlie]

2018's Most & Least Federally Dependent States

#43, #45, and #49 all look good to me

I was born in Kansas believe me you don't want to deal with that humidity!

 

[Caveman Jim]

Funny that this thread came up. I think good points are made on both sides. I for one will have to stay and fight because of my job and situation in life.

I think that @etrain16 brings up some valuable points. Yes we all work and have busy lives and are the ones that support the people out protesting because they don't work and leach off of the government. But we can make a difference and it takes minutes a day or one conversation a month to a person that you run into to help make that change.

People every day are fighting for our rights. @Sporting Systems went to the capital yesterday to fight for us here in Washington. @Caveman Jim is a huge advocate and fights with every breath he has. @Joe Link has given us this site to help voice our opinions.

I know that I am missing a bunch of people. But if we don't stand together and work together we are done. I for one will not lay down and go quietly. We are loosing this battle because we don't stand together on the smallest of things!! If we don't stop arguing among ourselves how can we be a united front!!!

Thanks for the acknowledgment brother but am getting tired of the apathy from those who do not want to get involved. You can't save those who think oppression like I594 &1639 can happen in their state.

 

[11Charlie]

Thanks for the acknowledgment brother but am getting tired of the apathy from those who do not want to get involved. You can't save those who think oppression like I594 &1639 can happen in their state.

If it makes you feel any better brother. With out those like you we would have been doomed ages ago. Thank you and keep up the good fight.

I got your six!

 

[mkwerx]

2018's Most & Least Federally Dependent States

#43, #45, and #49 all look good to me

Minnesota is pretty blue. IIRC they voted dems this go round, and Al Franken is one of their senators. Great outdoor opportunities, but lots of goof balls.