National Ruling on reset triggers

[ilikegunspdx]

What if I used an FRT with my bump stock?

Good question. I think frt's are still illegal but as far as binary you have to get the right cadence to get a full speed mag dump without outrunning the trigger. 2 round bursts you can do anything you want with your trigger finger and it will work fine. 4 round bursts pretty much the same. But when you get into longer bursts or mag dumps one has to practice to avoid choppy, inconsistent shooting or stoppages (usually from outrunning the bolt). With a little practice you can get consistent mag dumps.

Just a guess but I think you would get 2 round bursts or at the very most 4 round. Would be very interesting to test though I think.

 

[jbett98]

You can now purchase an FRT selector safety switch that allows you to switch from safe, semi and then to FRT mode.

They are making them for Rare breed and Wide Open Triggers.


RB FRT-15 Third Position Upgrade Kit

$269.99

 

[FATAL125]

What if I used an FRT with my bump stock?

 

[CamoDeafie]

You can now purchase an FRT selector safety switch that allows you to switch from safe, semi and then to FRT mode.

They are making them for Rare breed and Wide Open Triggers.


RB FRT-15 Third Position Upgrade Kit

$269.99


View attachment 1921752

That'd be hilarious being put into a PSA "M16A2" marked lower with the "burst" setting marking

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The angry man put out a short video. Does this apply nationwide? And how "final" is the decision? For braces the decision was "final" enough that vendors started selling guns with braces and poeple can use them again. I assume this is the same? Are these on gunbroker yet?

View: https://youtu.be/W16CQvRRSd4?si=LuoXV9b3gBfo5yb8

 

[FATAL125]

The angry man put out a short video. Does this apply nationwide? And how "final" is the decision? For braces the decision was "final" enough that vendors started selling guns with braces and poeple can use them again I assume this is the same?

View: https://youtu.be/W16CQvRRSd4?si=LuoXV9b3gBfo5yb8

"Sounds" pretty "final"...

Guess we'll see soon enough if vendors start selling again...

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I guess the people who had theirs confiscated or who listened to WA gun law YouTube guy and destroyed theirs will get no money back. That sucks.

 

[FATAL125]

I guess the people who had theirs confiscated or who listened to WA gun law YouTube guy and destroyed theirs will get no money back. That sucks.

I'll have to re-watch... but I thought I heard the exact opposite

 

[CamoDeafie]

From the pdf of the order;

Clicky to embiggen.

It looks like the scope of the injunction is limited to the individual plaintiffs and their families, members of the organizational plaintiffs, downstream customers of commercial members of the same plaintiffs, and also does not extend to other jurisdictions in which there are already cases relating to forced reset triggers (such as the NY case).

Edit. If you're a member of National Assoc of Gun Rights (NAGR), or the Texas group, or customers of such commercial members..

The order also requires the ATF to return confiscated FRTs or compensate for destruction of FRTs to the covered members within 30 days.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I'll have to re-watch... but I thought I heard the exact opposite

I was thinking he was talking about the ones atf took from him $250k worth and from dealers. I assume those are still in inventory and haven't been destroyed but I have no idea on that.

But I think you're right he may be saying that individuals get them back if they were confiscated. I wonder if those have been destroyed and what happens if the have? Who knows. It may be that only the folks who listened to wa gun law and destroyed them themselves may be out.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

From the pdf of the order;
View attachment 1922002
Clicky to embiggen.

It looks like the scope of the injunction is limited to the individual plaintiffs and their families, members of the organizational plaintiffs, downstream customers of commercial members of the same plaintiffs, and also does not extend to other jurisdictions in which there are already cases relating to forced reset triggers (such as the NY case).

Oh great, here we go again, "our members are covered, send in you $ today to join our organization". Last time with braces FPC, goa, and SAF all did this. Then even nra did it after everyone in the country was already covered. NRA did it to try to get more members even though everyone was already covered. Why the hell don't they let everyone in USA be covered? Greed?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Oh great, here we go again, "our members are covered, send in you $ today to join our organization". Last time with braces FPC, how, and SAF all did this. Then even nra did it after everyone in the country was already covered. NRA did it to try to get more members even though everyone was already covered.

I can see the reasoning for the Judge to limit the scope, because there apparently are other forced reset trigger cases going on in other districts? This should set up a battle in SCOTUS, when Districts like those of 9th and the East NY Courts decide in favor of the ATF/DOJ and say FRTs are machine guns
A circuit split will usually need to go to SCOTUS for review and possibly judgement. Also possible SCOTUS GVRs the other districts and upholds the Texas decision.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I can see the reasoning for the Judge to limit the scope, because there apparently are other forced reset trigger cases going on in other districts? This should set up a battle in SCOTUS, when Districts like those of 9th and the East NY Courts decide in favor of the ATF/DOJ and say FRTs are machine guns
A circuit split will usually need to go to SCOTUS for review and possibly judgement. Also possible SCOTUS GVRs the other districts and upholds the Texas decision.

But for braces it covered everyone in USA. For FRT Is it limited to members only because that's what the plaintiffs asked for?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

From the pdf of the order;
View attachment 1922002
Clicky to embiggen.

It looks like the scope of the injunction is limited to the individual plaintiffs and their families, members of the organizational plaintiffs, downstream customers of commercial members of the same plaintiffs, and also does not extend to other jurisdictions in which there are already cases relating to forced reset triggers (such as the NY case).

Edit. If you're a member of National Assoc of Gun Rights (NAGR), or the Texas group, or customers of such commercial members..

The order also requires the ATF to return confiscated FRTs or compensate for destruction of FRTs to the covered members within 30 days.

I guess we will have to wait for mark smith interpretation of what this means. Also mrgunsngear is not a lawyer but he nailed the last brace vacated ruling so he may be able to shed light on it

Item 2 seems to say that atf cannot consider them machine guns. That would mean they cannot prosecute anyone based on it being a machine gun, whether a member or not (it seems to me anyway).

But then items 4, 5, and 6, seem to only relate to a special class of people, not everyone.

And then item 7 says everyone, not just the special class of people, must have their FRTs returned. Clear as mud...

If I was to guess I would say item 2 is the critical point. If ATF can't call them machine guns they can't prosecute anyone, can't confiscate any longer, and they can't restrict sales. In other words everyone is covered. But I'm no lawyer, that's just how I read it.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

This video says that the "members only" is an additional specific instruction by the judge. In other words everybody is covered but this is like extra emphasis that ATF can't go after plaintiffs like rare breed triggers.

Skip to 7:25 mark

View: https://youtu.be/jj3c4WrBYNM?si=bJ28oyIjiOmSJXaP

She also says ATF has to return all FRT triggers to individuals and businesses within 30 days. She says ATF will seek a stay of the ruling which could happen within that 30 days. It sounds like FRTS won't be for sale right away due to ATF will fight the ruling (my interpretation of what she said I may be wrong).

 

[CamoDeafie]

This video says that the "members only" is an additional specific instruction by the judge. In other words everybody is covered but this is like extra emphasis that ATF can't go after plaintiffs like rare breed triggers.

Skip to 7:25 mark

View: https://youtu.be/jj3c4WrBYNM?si=bJ28oyIjiOmSJXaP

She also says ATF has to return all FRT triggers to individuals and businesses within 30 days. She says ATF will seek a stay of the ruling which could happen within that 30 days.

"Would", not could

 

[wired]

They work OK

1400 RPM . FWIW that gun doesn't fire that fast in real full auto!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cimIzguWK8

 

[JustSomeGuy]

I was thinking he was talking about the ones atf took from him $250k worth and from dealers. I assume those are still in inventory and haven't been destroyed but I have no idea on that.

But I think you're right he may be saying that individuals get them back if they were confiscated. I wonder if those have been destroyed and what happens if the have? Who knows. It may be that only the folks who listened to wa gun law and destroyed them themselves may be out.

Probably bunches of AFT agents scurrying to remove those confiscated FRTs from their personal weapons right about now.

 

[wired]

Probably bunches of AFT agents scurrying to remove those confiscated FRTs from their personal weapons right about now.

I doubt they've confiscated 50

 

[CamoDeafie]

I'm trying to find the relevant info and apparently the ATF officially bragged that they recovered/removed 11,000+(?) Triggers from the streets...

View: https://youtu.be/jOZuHN5FOHc?si=7rWfshJOHJ3ImSZg