Riddle me this….. rifle masters.

[NobullSKS]

I was starting some hand loads and I usually go by grouping and high pressure signs first….. since I don't own a crony yet.

I split my load count in half per powder weight….. first 5 for grouping….second 5 for speed. It's my understanding that attaching magnetospeed to barrel affects accuracy. Anyway….
Shooting groups right to left without anything on barrel…. Then (upper left 9shots—-with last at correction on sticker) 2 different powder loads (far ends of spectrum) with magneto attached…. Groups are twice as high but pretty stinking tite right of the bat.

Do I need to tune barrel with weight or something? Why the dramatic, consistent change? Is it just because it's a cheap barrel?

There's got to be some science to adjust here.
Hornady 168 HPBT….didn't get velocity readings because of dead equipment.

Bear Creek Arsenal..
AR10 .308…. Free float handgaurd bipod on Mlok
Barrel…
SS straight flute, SOCOM cut. 20" twist 1:10

…side note…..
I reach a good middle ground and borrow the ranges MagnetoSpeed. (Had a lot of error codes this trip….. guess that's what you get from loaners after a couple year. Error 6 (reduce sensitivity) and then Error 2 (excessive cord twisting)….. I don't trust this one anymore and will just have to get my own.)

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[Vette991]

A barrel is like a tuning fork. It vibrates when you shoot. When you attach a magneto to the barrel you simply change the rate of vibration. My advice? Toss the magneto and get a chrony or, better yet, an Oehler. You can shoot through these and nothing is attached to the barrel. Or.......a Labradar is another option. Good luck.

 

[solv3nt]

From what I've read, it sounds like the problem is the barrel. I don't think those barrels are much better than minute of man.

 

[Unka-Boo]

What distance, out of curiosity?

 

[Member 34319]

I Chronograph separate from shooting groups. Knowing speed does not require anything but a gun and a Chronograph.

I do this to avoid what you have here. A conundrum of groups using the same ammo.

Things I've learned:

Shooting using a Chronograph requires me to take my attention away from shooting my groups.

Constant moving to check speed or write down notes takes away from my concentration and targets.

Cheek placement changes more.

Rifle moved around more.

In conclusion:

I don't get to stay on the rifle and concentrate on my target and reticle.

I don't get to keep a god solid cheek rest and focus on aligning my reticle with at least 4-6 parts of the target each shot.

I forget to take my time breathing.

I forget to call my mind.

I guess what I'm trying to say is reloading and shooting for groups can be extremely enjoyable, but it is a time consuming project that shouldn't be rushed by trying to do too many things all at once.

In other words, don't shoot for groups while testing loads for anything else at the same time. I find even checking brass in between shots for pressure signs disrupts my groupings.

 

[P7M13]

Some suggestions:

1. Write distance, bullet and load data on the target next to your groups.
2. Read up on "ladder testing" methodology.
3. Understand your barrels limitations and the effects of heat on your barrel. You don't want them to get hot. SOCOM tend to be an average profile, i.e. not really designed for accuracy. Read up at USA Carry.

If this were a ladder test, I'd look at the top left as promising, as it has the least vertical dispersion.
You would then vary seating depth and/or powder variations +/- .5 grains in either direction to see what works best.
Others may add, as I sometimes question my ability to read them.
Edit - looking on my phone, I didn't see the one flyer in the target. Like @Reno says, stabilize your gun, consistent cheek weld, smooth trigger - lots of things need to happen to make a load work-up valid.

 

[Bobbygun]

Do I need to tune barrel with weight or something?

Limbsaver makes a rubber barrel dampener called Limbsaver Sharpshooter X-Ring that might help. I've never tried one, but given your circumstances, it might just work. Plus, they're only about $10.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

Groups look like they have a 4-5" spread. If those were shot at 100 yds, a weight or dampener is the last concern for getting tighter groups. I would be looking at a different barrel and/or bullet if there was not something wrong on the rifle and your marksmanship skill is better than that.

 

[NobullSKS]

What distance, out of curiosity?

100 yards.

 

[NobullSKS]

Groups look like they have a 4-5" spread. If those were shot at 100 yds, a weight or dampener is the last concern for getting tighter groups. I would be looking at a different barrel and/or bullet if there was not something wrong on the rifle and your marksmanship skill is better than that.

I get much better performance from flat base bullets. Reading some of the responses, I think I'm misunderstood. I'm not necessarily looking for advice on particular groups…. Just why with same loads my groups tighten up with magneto attached?

 

[Ruger Rich]

I Chronograph separate from shooting groups. Knowing speed does not require anything but a gun and a Chronograph.

I do this to avoid what you have here. A conundrum of groups using the same ammo.

Things I've learned:

Shooting using a Chronograph requires me to take my attention away from shooting my groups.

Constant moving to check speed or write down notes takes away from my concentration and targets.

Cheek placement changes more.

Rifle moved around more.

In conclusion:

I don't get to stay on the rifle and concentrate on my target and reticle.

I don't get to keep a god solid cheek rest and focus on aligning my reticle with at least 4-6 parts of the target each shot.

I forget to take my time breathing.

I forget to call my mind.

I guess what I'm trying to say is reloading and shooting for groups can be extremely enjoyable, but it is a time consuming project that shouldn't be rushed by trying to do too many things all at once.

In other words, don't shoot for groups while testing loads for anything else at the same time. I find even checking brass in between shots for pressure signs disrupts my groupings.

Good thoughts/advice

 

[ferret427]

Chronographs are for developing consistent velocities in a load. This reduces vertical dispersion at distance. Unless the extreme velocity spread of a group of rounds is pretty high, you probably won't see much of a difference from velocity at 100 yards, which is okay. 100 yards for supersonic bullets eliminates the biggest variable, wind.

I use a magnetospeed with good results. the POI shift for me is minimal (if I can tell the difference at 100 yards). I am in no way close to a benchrest/expert marksman, my own shooting technique is my worst enemy.

Use the Magnetospeed to find a load that has low extreme spread and the smallest standard deviation. It can also help you find a velocity that works well with your barrel's harmonics.Then take it off and shoot for groups if you think it affects your accuracy/precision. I don't think a few .Oz of plastic tied to the barrel with nylon and rubber will affect practical group sizes enough to matter, and the POI shift (if any at 100yds) will be taken care of when you adjust your sights/optics without the chrony attached.

 

[NobullSKS]

Limbsaver makes a rubber barrel dampener called Limbsaver Sharpshooter X-Ring that might help. I've never tried one, but given your circumstances, it might just work. Plus, they're only about $10.

Thx man. Think you got what I was trying to say. Looks like they are in 2nd gen. But $30 is doable. Worth seeing what happens.

 

[orygun]

I get much better performance from flat base bullets. Reading some of the responses, I think I'm misunderstood. I'm not necessarily looking for advice on particular groups…. Just why with same loads my groups tighten up with magneto attached?

Flat base bullets can really help accuracy when there's an issue with the crown of the barrel.

Since adding a barrel mounted weight tightened groups, I would consider pressure bedding the barrel into the forend.

 

[NobullSKS]

Flat base bullets can really help accuracy when there's an issue with the crown of the barrel.

Since adding a barrel mounted weight tightened groups, I would consider pressure bedding the barrel into the forend.

I'm confused or ignorant…… usually both ……because I'm shooting an AR

 

[orygun]

I'm confused or ignorant…… usually both ……because I'm shooting an AR

Oh.

Then my advice was worth about what you paid for it.
Try adding some weight. A heavy muzzle brake, perhaps?

 

[Greenbug]

Re-do your test.
Shoot a group or groups without the chrono, when you find a group that is acceptable, then chrono that load.

I don't really care how fast a poor shooting load is traveling, especially since I will never load it again since my gun does not like it. I don't get out the chronograph until I have a good shooting group....

If you find a load that your AR-10 with questionable barrel shoots into an inch or so at 100 yards that is all I would expect it to be capable of doing at best.

That last group on the top left is two groups? One of each with 2 different powder charges with the chronograph attached? If so, they both look about the same to me. Re-load some more of those 2 powder charges and shoot them without the chronograph. If they still shoot that tight, call it a day, if they open up then try the barrel dampener donut thing.

 

[Busyhawk]

Nobullsks, Another variable you have not mentioned is bullet jump. You are limited in the length of the overall loaded ammo because of magazine restriction but it made a huge difference in accuracy of my 308 in my JP LRP gas gun. I shoot 175 grain bullets because of restrictions of the discipline I shoot (Tactical Class the bullet must be between 170 and 180 grain bullets) and I am using a SMK and it is very consistent. Just my .02

 

[Koda]

A magnetospeed attached can affect group size and or POI or both in for better or worse, thus it is not a metric to use to determine how to tighten group size up or the cause of poor group size. All the magnetospeed did was change your barrel harmonics, if it tightend up the group size then try changing your charge weight and find an accuracy node with a OCW test, without the magnetospeed attached.

I had to look up this barrel tuner thing.... am I missing something or why would anyone want to use one of those to shoot well?

Whatever your barrel quality is as long as its not damaged you should not need a barrel tuner or any added weight to work up an accurate load for any barrel. If your not happy with the group size then play with seating depth, crimp, neck tension, or try changing powders or primers if needed.


This?

 

[Bobbygun]

This?

They actually review pretty well on Amazon. Again, I've never tried one.
Or this: