repercussions?

[DiscoFam]

So I was pulling into a restaurant and two people ran in front of my car and across the road. Long short they left without paying. How much trouble would I have been in if I would have pulled my gun to stop them?

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[MrNiceGuy]

So I was pulling into a restaurant and two people ran in front of my car and across the road. Long short they left without paying. How much trouble would I have been in if I would have pulled my gun to stop them?

You were thinking about pulling your gun because you witnessed a dine and dash?



There's a big difference between a CHL and a police badge. If they are posing no threat and are not on your property, why would you even think about pointing your weapon at another person?

 

[tallyho]

What kind of trouble...!? Big trouble - waaaaay bigger trouble that the dine and dashers would be in!!

 

[DiscoFam]

I wasn't even comprehending doing something like that, I just am wondering. What are allowable means of detention for a citizens arrest?
I just wanted to know what laws say about detaining a criminal? Sorry to ruffle anyone feathers.

 

[ejmpnu92]

Unless the people who were dashing were armed and threatening me, not for me to interfere. Pulling my weapon may just escalate a non use of force situation to deadly force rather quickly. Then to top it off, you have the police show up and now you are the aggressor, the outcome may be what you did not intend. With the recent (seemingly) increase in police shootings, I would not want to take the chance on being the good guy with good intentions and ending up in a bad situation. (This goes out the window, IMO, if they are shooting.)

On the Washington County CHL application, under the privacy questions, it asks you if you are applying as a personal safety measure. Not sure if the authorities can go back and look at this information, but if you check yes, and you interfere in a situation that personal safety was not an issue, you may have explaining to do.

But that is just my 3 cents worth.

 

[pokerace]

you were in the parking lot? How did you know what they did??? Pull a gun on them and your in Deeeep DoDo...

 

[DiscoFam]

The manager wanted me to run them over.

 

[Chipperxd]

I would never draw my weapon unless I felt that my life or the life of a loved one was in serious danger.

 

[marty8587]

It's all about a " life threatening situation", that was not one.

 

[2506]

I'd say it's none of your business, and I mean that in the friendliest way possible.

 

[coctailer]

You may only expose your gun if you feel that you, or someone else, is going to die from an attacker.

 

[Brandon44647]

Recently in Ore City a couple of guys walked into T-mobile store and grabbed a few items and ran out the door. Another customer in the store ran after them pulled his concealed weapon and actually fired shots at them, he missed, lucky for him. Then he casually strolled back into the store and took his place back in line like nothing happened ! He was quickly arrested and charged, when asked if he would do it again he said yes. Really ? It's people like this that give gun owners a BAD name ! No offense DiscoFam but keep it in your pocket unless your life is threatened.....

 

[DiscoFam]

I saw someone's signature that said "I want to die with my gun on my hip having never to have used it." I fully agree with that statement. I would never pull my gun unless I knew there was a threat of me or someone around me being killed.
I just was in that situation and was wondering the laws and consequences of someone pulling a gun.
Again I would NEVER pull my gun for anything other than a life and death situation.

 

[ejmpnu92]

Just a few things I dug up from the Oregon Gun Laws page

https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors166.html

166.025 Disorderly conduct in the second degree. (1) A person commits the crime of disorderly conduct in the second degree if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, the person:

(a) Engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior;

(b) Makes unreasonable noise;

(c) Disturbs any lawful assembly of persons without lawful authority;

(d) Obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic on a public way;

(e) Congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse;

(f) Initiates or circulates a report, knowing it to be false, concerning an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime, catastrophe or other emergency; or

(g) Creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which the person is not licensed or privileged to do.

(2) Disorderly conduct in the second degree is a Class B misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §220; 1983 c.546 §5; 2001 c.104 §55; 2005 c.631 §1]

166.155 Intimidation in the second degree. (1) A person commits the crime of intimidation in the second degree if the person:

(a) Tampers or interferes with property, having no right to do so nor reasonable ground to believe that the person has such right, with the intent to cause substantial inconvenience to another because of the person's perception of the other's race, color, religion, sexual orientation or national origin;

(b) Intentionally subjects another to offensive physical contact because of the person's perception of the other's race, color, religion, sexual orientation or national origin; or

(c) Intentionally, because of the person's perception of race, color, religion, sexual orientation or national origin of another or of a member of the other's family, subjects the other person to alarm by threatening:

(A) To inflict serious physical injury upon or to commit a felony affecting the other person, or a member of the person's family; or

(B) To cause substantial damage to the property of the other person or of a member of the other person's family.

(2) Intimidation in the second degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

(3) For purposes of this section, "property" means any tangible personal property or real property. [1981 c.785 §1; 1983 c.521 §1; 1989 c.1029 §1; 2007 c.100 §18]

166.165 Intimidation in the first degree. (1) Two or more persons acting together commit the crime of intimidation in the first degree, if the persons:

(a)(A) Intentionally, knowingly or recklessly cause physical injury to another person because of the actors' perception of that person's race, color, religion, sexual orientation or national origin; or

(B) With criminal negligence cause physical injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon because of the actors' perception of that person's race, color, religion, sexual orientation or national origin;

(b) Intentionally, because of the actors' perception of another person's race, color, religion, sexual orientation or national origin, place another person in fear of imminent serious physical injury; or

(c) Commit such acts as would constitute the crime of intimidation in the second degree, if undertaken by one person acting alone.

(2) Intimidation in the first degree is a Class C felony. [1981 c.785 §2; 1983 c.521 §2; 1989 c.1029 §2; 1993 c.332 §1; 1995 c.79 §53; 1997 c.249 §50; 2007 c.100 §19]

166.180 Negligently wounding another. Any person who, as a result of failure to use ordinary care under the circumstances, wounds any other person with a bullet or shot from any firearm, or with an arrow from any bow, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed $500, or both. In addition, any person so convicted shall forfeit any license to hunt, obtained under the laws of this state, and shall be ineligible to obtain a license to hunt for a period of 10 years following the date of conviction. [Formerly 163.310]

166.190 Pointing firearm at another; courts having jurisdiction over offense. Any person over the age of 12 years who, with or without malice, purposely points or aims any loaded or empty pistol, gun, revolver or other firearm, at or toward any other person within range of the firearm, except in self-defense, shall be fined upon conviction in any sum not less than $10 nor more than $500, or be imprisoned in the county jail not less than 10 days nor more than six months, or both. Justice courts have jurisdiction concurrent with the circuit court of the trial of violations of this section. When any person is charged before a justice court with violation of this section, the court shall, upon motion of the district attorney, at any time before trial, act as a committing magistrate, and if probable cause be established, hold such person to the grand jury. [Formerly 163.320]

166.220 Unlawful use of weapon. (1) A person commits the crime of unlawful use of a weapon if the person:

(a) Attempts to use unlawfully against another, or carries or possesses with intent to use unlawfully against another, any dangerous or deadly weapon as defined in ORS 161.015; or

(b) Intentionally discharges a firearm, blowgun, bow and arrow, crossbow or explosive device within the city limits of any city or within residential areas within urban growth boundaries at or in the direction of any person, building, structure or vehicle within the range of the weapon without having legal authority for such discharge.

(2) This section does not apply to:

(a) Police officers or military personnel in the lawful performance of their official duties;

(b) Persons lawfully defending life or property as provided in ORS 161.219;

(c) Persons discharging firearms, blowguns, bows and arrows, crossbows or explosive devices upon public or private shooting ranges, shooting galleries or other areas designated and built for the purpose of target shooting;

(d) Persons lawfully engaged in hunting in compliance with rules and regulations adopted by the State Department of Fish and Wildlife; or

(e) An employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of employment, discharging a firearm in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife.

(3) Unlawful use of a weapon is a Class C felony. [Amended by 1975 c.700 §1; 1985 c.543 §1; 1991 c.797 §1; 2009 c.556 §5]
166.260 Persons not affected by ORS 166.250. (1) ORS 166.250 does not apply to or affect:

(a) Sheriffs, constables, marshals, parole and probation officers, police officers, whether active or honorably retired, or other duly appointed peace officers.

(b) Any person summoned by any such officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace, while said person so summoned is actually engaged in assisting the officer.
(There is more to this but did not think the rest applied)

However there is also this:
166.262 Limitation on peace officer's authority to arrest for violating ORS 166.250 or 166.370. A peace officer may not arrest or charge a person for violating ORS 166.250 (1)(a) or (b) or 166.370 (1) if the person has in the person's immediate possession a valid license to carry a firearm as provided in ORS 166.291 and 166.292. [1999 c.1040 §5]

166.300 Killing another as cause for loss of right to bear arms. (1) Any person who has committed, with firearms of any kind or description, murder in any degree, or manslaughter, either voluntary or involuntary, or who in a careless or reckless manner, kills or injures another with firearms, and who, at any time after committing murder or manslaughter or after said careless or reckless killing or injury of another, carries or bears firearms of any kind or description within this state, shall be punished upon conviction by a fine of not more than $500, or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or both.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section does not deprive the people of this state of the right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the state, and does not apply to any peace officer in the discharge of official duties or to a member of any regularly constituted military organization while on duty with such military organization.

(3) Justice courts, county courts and all other courts having jurisdiction as justice courts, shall have concurrent jurisdiction with the circuit courts of all prosecutions under subsection (1) of this section.

 

[ejmpnu92]

The use of force laws can be found at this link, did not want to look up stuff.

https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors161.html

 

[madcratebuilder]

A conceal carry lic is not a badge. Pulling your gun you could end up losing your CCL and even your right to own a gun.

 

[FTG]

Being law enforcement trained, I would suggest that you never get involved in anything that you see going done unless you are: 1- personally involved, 2- can not remove yourself from the situation, 3- feel that you are in imminent fear of your life.
This means if you see a domestic situation, you see a dine-n-dash, you see a smash and grab, you see anything that dose not involve you or make you fear for your own life, YOU STAY THE "F" OUT OF IT.
This may sound harsh, but; even if it appears that someone else may be in physical danger you should not get involved. If you do get involved be prepared for an "S" storm like you have never imagined, have lots of money and a go lawyer.
If someone is mouthing off to you and being an ***, you better take a deep breath and remove yourself from the situation without responding in "like". If another party starts something, you need to respectfully move on. If you have anything to do with escalating a situation, even though you did not start it, and you had the opportunity to safely remove yourself and not get further involved, you will be found in the wrong and the other guy will get a pass.
You have a carry permit, you are not deputized. In our society you will be aggressively pursued by the State Attorney General in all of the examples above, yes even if you had good intentions and thought you were doing the right thing.

 

[DiscoFam]

Thank you all for the information. Thats exactly the things I was looking to find out.

 

[CJ1089]

Being law enforcement trained, I would suggest that you never get involved in anything that you see going done unless you are: 1- personally involved, 2- can not remove yourself from the situation, 3- feel that you are in imminent fear of your life.
This means if you see a domestic situation, you see a dine-n-dash, you see a smash and grab, you see anything that dose not involve you or make you fear for your own life, YOU STAY THE "F" OUT OF IT.
This may sound harsh, but; even if it appears that someone else may be in physical danger you should not get involved. If you do get involved be prepared for an "S" storm like you have never imagined, have lots of money and a go lawyer.
If someone is mouthing off to you and being an ***, you better take a deep breath and remove yourself from the situation without responding in "like". If another party starts something, you need to respectfully move on. If you have anything to do with escalating a situation, even though you did not start it, and you had the opportunity to safely remove yourself and not get further involved, you will be found in the wrong and the other guy will get a pass.
You have a carry permit, you are not deputized. In our society you will be aggressively pursued by the State Attorney General in all of the examples above, yes even if you had good intentions and thought you were doing the right thing.

I do not dispute anything in this response. I would just like to add something about the ramifications that this 'reality' has on our current society.

When a law abiding societal member (citizen) cannot assist another in need, as is the case here and now, then that society is shattered and only demographic inertia is keeping it together. Which is why IMHO we are just one major event from a cycle of anarchy and disaster.

 

[DiscoFam]

I agree with you Cj that law abiding citizens should have some abilities but I think that some people might take it too far. It would be scary to have people that don't 100% know the situation jumping in to play hero and possibly causing move issue.