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Hi Guys,

I'm really just getting into reloading and welcome any advice.
Please don't laugh but I'm using a Lee Loader for right now (balling on a budget).

Here's what I have so far:
1585627423408.png
For now, I just started with a ladder test to see what works. I have yet to actually fire any of them (hoping to make it up to Brown's camp soon).
I started out with this load mainly because I heard of other members having good luck with it. I really don't have a lot of experience so I wanted to start with something that worked for others at least.

My main concern is bullet run-out using the Lee Loader. I have an improvised method of measuring run-out but I honestly don't know whether the results are good or bad. I'm measuring 0.005" - 0.006" on most of them right now. Given this isn't the most accurate measurement method, I still think it gives me a ball park. Any advice/opinions?
1585627851550.png

Anyway, thanks for looking and I appreciate any advice.
I'll share the results of this ladder test when I get the chance.

- Will
 
Looks good to me assuming those min and max loads are given to you by your reloading manual? Seems fairly accurate from memory using that powder and SMK 175gr BTHPs.

Worry about run-out later on. Your numbers aren't great, but you'll still probably be able to see the effects of charge weight regardless. More than likely its occurring during the bullet seating process.

Just go slow and watch for pressure signs. My Savage was spitting them out at over 2,800 FPS using 43.0 gr of that powder. Had to back it off quite a bit.
 
When I first did .308, I took a factory round, put it in the press, adjusted the seating die to fit the factory round and that was my 'dummy' method of seating them to the right length.

In terms of a specific load, I personally wasn't trying to shoot the wings off bugs at 300 yards, so I picked a load that ran in my rifle reliably, seemed to have adequate accuracy, and called it good.

I know I also personally tend to avoid starting at the minimum load data suggestions just because I am confident the load data published at this time is watered down from decades ago, but I advise others to follow published data and observe for pressure signs.

Definitely think about it, but don't overthink it too much, get out and shoot your loads. Keeping a log/notebook will be helpful so you can refer back at a later time, often the published data isn't what is experienced by reloaders out in the field.
 
Good choice of powder and bullet. I have reloaded 308 for many years. IMR 4064 is my favorite powder.
I would choose 168 SMK for shooting out to 300 yards. 175 SMK for over 300 yards. I think your loads are
at the upper end may be too high PSI. My load for 168 SMK is 41 grains. Are your Federal cases properly sized?
I assume you are using a full length sizing die as you should. Chamber the resized brass in your rifle. The bolt should
close with normal pressure. And easily withdraw the sized case. If not your case is not sized correctly.
Adjust the sizer die to bring down the case shoulder. Don't worry about run out now. See how it shoots.
The Federal brass is soft good for only a couple reloads. Loose primer pockets after a couple reloads.
308 Savage with 168 SMK and IMR 4064. 5 shaots @ 100 yards
1585625397448.png
 
Agree with @DizzyJ, worry about bullet runout later.
There are many members here far more skilled than me, but I'll share some thoughts.

On the subject of bullet runout:
  • Your Lee Loader has what it takes to produce top-notch ammo. The consistency of your method makes all the difference.
  • To minimize runout, while seating the bullet, I will drive the ram up a bit to initially seat, back the ram off, rotate the bullet 90°-120°, run the ram up and seat some more, back off and rotate again, do it one or two more times. The principle behind this is to average the misalignment / angled force of seating over multiple passes.
  • I have a machinist's stone. If you roll the cartridge across it, you can see 4 mils of runout, and any other imperfections in your case.
For your ladder tests, bring a chrono and measure the velocity of each shot. I have difficulty reading ladder tests. What I do find is, of the tested groups, I will select the ones with the tightest MV/ES/SD spread and then test a larger sample size with them. Once you find a winner, you can then play with seating depth.
 
Yea, as alluded, it only neck sizes, which is good and bad. The ammo should be good for the gun that fired it only, generally. They might not chamber in other guns, even bolt actions.
In the old days many benchresters used the Lee Loader so it's plenty good within it's limitations.
 
You're right you on the money. Go with what you have. I think your loader is more accurate than your run out or depth measurement. Since the loader is going t be more consistent than the measure just make sure you're doing the same thing every time and be anal about the charge weight. Use a beam scale and trickle. DO NOT TRUST AN AUTMATIC DISPENSER. Ge it close then add grains one or a few at a time.

Also do two identical sets and fire at two identical targets and compare. Let the rifle cool between strings. The results should be mostly similar. On one target you can get an anomaly and then use that as data and you'd be incorrect. You need more than one set of datapoints.
 
Last Edited:
One method to minimize runout is when seating the bullet, seat halfway then rotate the round 180 degrees and finish seating. It is very doubtful this will add any runout and can be helpful in getting your bullets reasonably straight.

Let your target tell you which reloading steps are important. You can do all the steps or start to figure out which ones don't add any accuracy. Keep a log of what you are testing as well as an open mind.

Cheers
 
IMR4064 is THE powder for .308!!!

Ditto on trickling powder for rifle rounds... I use the powder measure set low, and then trickle powder (for each round) to get to the final charge. I have both a digital, and two balance beam scales and I check them against each other every few times. Powder throw/dispenser for pistol loads that I use for practice is not near as critical as rifle loads that I shoot for accuracy. :)
 
Last Edited:
Looks good to me assuming those min and max loads are given to you by your reloading manual? Seems fairly accurate from memory using that powder and SMK 175gr BTHPs.

Worry about run-out later on. Your numbers aren't great, but you'll still probably be able to see the effects of charge weight regardless. More than likely its occurring during the bullet seating process.

Just go slow and watch for pressure signs. My Savage was spitting them out at over 2,800 FPS using 43.0 gr of that powder. Had to back it off quite a bit.
Thanks for the advice! The min/max loads are from Nosler's website so I think I should be good.
I don't expect to be able to manipulate run-out much until I get an actual press. For now, I'm going to see how well I can do with this Lee loader and go from there.
 
Good choice of powder and bullet. I have reloaded 308 for many years. IMR 4064 is my favorite powder.
I would choose 168 SMK for shooting out to 300 yards. 175 SMK for over 300 yards. I think your loads are
at the upper end may be too high PSI. My load for 168 SMK is 41 grains. Are your Federal cases properly sized?
I assume you are using a full length sizing die as you should. Chamber the resized brass in your rifle. The bolt should
close with normal pressure. And easily withdraw the sized case. If not your case is not sized correctly.
Adjust the sizer die to bring down the case shoulder. Don't worry about run out now. See how it shoots.
The Federal brass is soft good for only a couple reloads. Loose primer pockets after a couple reloads.
308 Savage with 168 SMK and IMR 4064. 5 shaots @ 100 yards
View attachment 677288
I'm actually using a Lee Loader like this:
1586119958302.png

It isn't a full length sizing die but I checked that my finished cartridges would fit in my rifle and there doesn't appear to be a problem. I've heard it from few people now that Federal brass is no good. Makes me wish I hadn't bought so many factory Federal bullets now - ohh well.

Thanks for the advice!
 
Please don't laugh but I'm using a Lee Loader for right now (balling on a budget).
Started with one myself but it got old fast - and it probably will with you too.

About the time it does do whatever you can to get into a single stage press. Hey even a very basic one will be much better than the lee loader.

I see used presses come up for sale frequently on a variety of places. Good used dies are easy and cheap to come by as well as other basics to get started with.
 
Agree with @DizzyJ, worry about bullet runout later.
There are many members here far more skilled than me, but I'll share some thoughts.

On the subject of bullet runout:
  • Your Lee Loader has what it takes to produce top-notch ammo. The consistency of your method makes all the difference.
  • To minimize runout, while seating the bullet, I will drive the ram up a bit to initially seat, back the ram off, rotate the bullet 90°-120°, run the ram up and seat some more, back off and rotate again, do it one or two more times. The principle behind this is to average the misalignment / angled force of seating over multiple passes.
  • I have a machinist's stone. If you roll the cartridge across it, you can see 4 mils of runout, and any other imperfections in your case.
For your ladder tests, bring a chrono and measure the velocity of each shot. I have difficulty reading ladder tests. What I do find is, of the tested groups, I will select the ones with the tightest MV/ES/SD spread and then test a larger sample size with them. Once you find a winner, you can then play with seating depth.
I'll definitely try the seating method on my next batch! It makes sense to me that it would help.
For the ladder test, how many rounds per test do you usually run? I'm only doing 3 but I think I should have done about 10 each.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys!

My plan is to use the Lee Loader until I find its limitations. Considering that I'm new at this and have a lot to learn, I think it'll be awhile before I upgrade to a good quality press. I'm glad y'all are able to confirm that it will work for my purposes.

I'm just using a digital scale right now. It seems to be accurate enough.
I'll share the results of my first batch when I have them. Still haven't gotten a chance to get out and try them.

- Will
 
A balance beam scale might be worth investing in, at least until you're sure the electronic scale is holding zero and not giving you false readings. Some of the less expensive digital scales can fluctuate quite a bit depending on the scale and external influencing factors.
 

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