Reloading Lead... hardcast commercial vs homecast

[shibbershabber]

Mostly loaded jacketed bullets over the years with a few batches of home cast .45s

I just got a bunch of hardcast commercial bullets for my 357 and am wondering about the data

I know I have to keep velocity down to prevent leading. But the bullets I have now are much harder than what I casted.

They are 158gr LSWC bullets with a 20bhn hardness.

Can I push these a little faster in a 6" S&W 686 without worry too much about leading?

Still follow the "lead bullet" data ?

Read More

 

[DizzyJ]

Following.

 

[jordanka16]

20 is pretty hard, if you go too slow you might actually get leading, if the lube is good you should be fine to full .357 velocity with 20 bhn bullets.

 

[CLT65]

A lot depends on the diameter of your bore, compared to the actual diameter of the bullets.

 

[BWH]

I would powder coat them and possibly size them after finding the true diameter.
Do these cast bullets have provision for a gas check? that would be a plus for faster speeds in 357 mag cases.
You can go safe and load into 38 spec cases and keep your speed down as well.
I shoot a lot of lead in everything and usually use unique, green dot or bullseye and keep my pressures down. Have run lots of 44 and 357 mag fast and hot with h110/2400 using gas checks and harder bullets.

 

[conditor22]

Most important information first you need to know the diameter of the rifling in your barrel
What is the diameter of the bullets .358 is the standard.
most commercial hard cast bullets are 15 to 16 BHN.
20 is hard, even for a 357 magnum despite what Lyman says
Chapter 3 - Alloy Selection and Metallurgy, Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners - Glen E. Fryxell

 

[shibbershabber]

I loaded up 14 rounds

7 @ 5.0gr Unique and 7 @ 4.0gr Unique

This data from my Hornady book. The 5.0gr is said to do 950fps


The member I got them from didnt have much info on them and the Mfr has yet to respond to me.

As far as gas checks? Not sure. There is a beveled edge at the base of the bullet... does it look like its for a gas check? I cant imagine they boat tail pistol bullets.....


I havent slugged my bore, but I cant shove the bullet down the bore with my hand. Whatever thats worth.

Ill put them on paper next week... also hoping to land a chronograph by then too.

 

[Papercidal]

That does not look like a gas check shank just a bevel base to reduce shaving when they are seated. I will probably be headed to English pit to run a few rounds over my chrono sometime later next week if you would like to meet up to give it a try.

 

[ageingstudent]

Most important information first you need to know the diameter of the rifling in your barrel
What is the diameter of the bullets .358 is the standard.
most commercial hard cast bullets are 15 to 16 BHN.
20 is hard, even for a 357 magnum despite what Lyman says
Chapter 3 - Alloy Selection and Metallurgy, Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners - Glen E. Fryxell
View attachment 532391
View attachment 532389

View attachment 532392

Those Fryxell articles are excellent. They cover the subject quite well.

 

[gmerkt]

You can get into trouble with an overly hard lead bullet as easily as you can an overly soft bullet unless you do some of the stuff the other guys have mentioned in this thread. Unchecked hard bullets hold up better in shipping and that's their main virtue.

I have a couple of .357's. One is a Smith & Wesson Highway Patrolman and in that revolver, I shoot jacketed bullets at magnum velocities. The other is a Smith & Wesson Model 66-4 with a three inch bbl. Since I don't want to shoot magnum loads in the K frame Model 66, and I don't want to coke up the chambers by shooting .38 Special rounds, I hand load some soft .357 rounds using a fluffy powder and fairly soft lead bullets. The limp .357 rounds are fun to shoot.

 

[ron]

These look like standard 158 SWC. I learned a long time ago
to only load jacketed bullets to 357 mag power level. I like the 158 swc for 38 spl.
and 357 target loads. My accurate target load for these bullets that I have used for years.
357 case--158 swc lead---4.5 grains of Unique. I like shooting these 357 target loads
verses 38 special that leaves powder residue in the cylinders that can make the cambering
of the longer 357 difficult. As always check all load recipes with published data.

 

[shibbershabber]

The data used was out of Hornadys latest book.
None of their 158gr lead data was over 950fps

I'll Chrono them next week and see where they're at.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Well don't load up thousands to only find out they suck balls.. do like you're doing in small batches and work up.

 

[shibbershabber]

I loaded 7 rounds each

Waste not

 

[shibbershabber]

Okay...

Got the Chrono out and tested some loads....

First,

4.0gr of Unique out of my 6" S&W 686 got me an average FPS of 689
This load had a pretty light, 38spl feeling recoil.

Second,

5.0gr Unique out of same gun
Avg velocity was 845fps


Whats the verdict on these kinds of velocities with this hard of a bullet?

Shouldnt have leading or other issues?
OR
Should I try to find some faster loads?

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

I'd be worried that a low pressure load might not obturate a bullet that hard, and may contribute to leading.

I don't know if Unique will give you the pressure that you need. You might try 2400 if you have any available. I've had good luck using that powder with 18 BHN bullets.

As mentioned above, you might also try powdercoating them. Then you should be able to run them at any velocity you like.

 

[Mooseman]

The hardness of of copper jackets is in the 35 BHN range , so it's not a problem with harder lead to up the velocity. I have pushed linotype bullets to between 1200 and 1400 fps with a good Hi speed lube in the ring and had no problem with leading in .357,.44 mag, and 1000 fps in.45 Colt. and used 2400 powder or Unique , Imr4227, or SR4756 . Once you start approaching 1600 fps then you can see some leading with a harder alloy. Bullets .001 to .002 larger than the bore work best and I always mic'ed the forcing cone as compared to bore in revolvers. Sometimes they don"t match in diameter.
I'm old school and still not sold on the extra work and expense involved in powder coating or the Australian dip coating when a proper lube is really all you need.

 

[CLT65]

I learned a long time ago to only load jacketed bullets to 357 mag power level.

I used to have trouble with .357 mag leading long ago and came to the same conclusion, especially with commercially cast bullets. I found out over the years that it has more to do with undersized bullets and hard crayon lube, than any hard and fast rule about lead.

If you do it right: proper diameter, good lube, right alloy- I've shot plain base lead bullets at 1700fps in a .44 magnum rifle without leading. I got way better accuracy at that velocity with a gas check bullet, but the plain base worked.

As to powder coating, I was slow to try it myself because old-school lube worked fine and I had all the lube sizers and everything that I needed. I finally tried it and I'll never go back. It really is that much better. I don't worry about leading at all, everything is so much cleaner, no sticky lube, a lot less smoke when shooting. For me it was a revolution in bullet casting.