Red dot handgun training?!?! (Washington)

[EPS]

Here's a cop and instructor that advocates using a MRDS on a pistol.
And here's another.
And here's another.
And here's one more.
Sounds like Cerberus has atleast one.

I respect your opinion that these optics don't have a legitimate place on a duty or carry pistol.
I think you are missing out on some very tangible benefits and so do many others.

And you sent a bunch of pictures. Accully only one picture of a guy with a a AR 15 WITH A RED DOT THE REST WHERE LINKS TO TRAINING

 

[Jeedia]

They are fine to use on a pistol WITH back up sights......BUT you should first know to use irons and how to pull the trigger without disturbing your sight picture. Red dots are a good tool, but you can not use them as a crutch. Master iron sights, then a red dot can have advantages.
That being said there are only 2 I would ever carry. RMR and the delta point pro. You also need to realize that they will fail. Most fail around 10,000 rounds. Doesnt matter the brand. So having back up sights is a MUST.....and you MUST know how to use them!!!

 

[EPS]

They are fine to use on a pistol WITH back up sights......BUT you should first know to use irons and how to pull the trigger without disturbing your sight picture. Red dots are a good tool, but you can not use them as a crutch. Master iron sights, then a red dot can have advantages.
That being said there are only 2 I would ever carry. RMR and the delta point pro. You also need to realize that they will fail. Most fail around 10,000 rounds. Doesnt matter the brand. So having back up sights is a MUST.....and you MUST know how to use them!!!

Thanks now I got to go to sleep lol with my gun that I don't have to turn on the sites .
And just hit one button for a light ..
And basically all I need is the FRONT SITE

 

[Edward Hull]

And you sent a bunch of pictures. Accully only one picture of a guy with a a AR 15 WITH A RED DOT THE REST WHERE LINKS TO TRAINING

Those links are to staff biographies of some of the most influential instructors in the country, not merely pictures. They all advocated using an MRDS on a duty or carry pistol. They all have numerous years of employment at various law enforcement agency's as well as numerous years as trainers. None of them will beat you over the head about using an MRDS, but they all agree and can demonstrate the definitive benefits of using one.

 

[MilitantBEEMER]

I think there is a use for Red Dot equipped handguns for both LEO and CC. I know my home PD has just authorized officers to equip sidearms with Red Dots. It is gaining popularity in LE along with silencers.
Me personally being right handed and left ey dominant, see value in Red dots for my HD and CC weapons, rifles, pistolas and scatter guns

 

[EPS]

Those links are to staff biographies of some of the most influential instructors in the country, not merely pictures. They all advocated using an MRDS on a duty or carry pistol. They all have numerous years of employment at various law enforcement agency's as well as numerous years as trainers. None of them will beat you over the head about using an MRDS, but they all agree and can demonstrate the definitive benefits of using one.

I couldn't get the links to work.
Anyway it's up to you .
Like I said I tried a red dot on one of my pistols.
And didn't like it .
For me I was always looking for the dot and UNLESS you practice practice practice . with it
It was different than just use the front sight for a quick shot.
To each his own I guess.

 

[shooter777]

I think there is a use for Red Dot equipped handguns for both LEO and CC. I know my home PD has just authorized officers to equip sidearms with Red Dots. It is gaining popularity in LE along with silencers.
Me personally being right handed and left ey dominant, see value in Red dots for my HD and CC weapons, rifles, pistolas and scatter guns[/QUOTE

I'm also right handed and left eye dominant. I've heard that it can be difficult to track the dot thru the recoil cycle. I've only shot a g17 with mro once and it was definitely not as easy as shooting a red dot on a carbine. There is a learning curve

 

[ferret427]

I'm left handed and right eye dominant. I am also middle aged. My EDC has tritium sights with a big dot front sight. My sight picture looks like mush and cannot focus on sights at all. Just one big blur.
I rented a pistol with RMR on it last week to see if it would help. No real improvement, but only 50 rounds fired. However, did not adjust the rental zero and I could see the dot clearly and the target well. I am seriously considering having my slide milled and a red dot installed.
I figure nothing ventured nothing gained. Any thoughts?

 

[Edward Hull]

You will have to relearn how to point the pistol, but it doesn't take long. I learned to shoot with iron sights. About 20 years later I switched to a red dot and I won't go back. The advantages are not subjective. You can shoot more accurately at a farther distance in all conditions. The cost is about $800 for the RMR and the milling. After that all you have to do is practice. I'll let you shoot either of my guns if you want to practice more before you buy. I have a 6.5 MOA dot and a 3.25 MOA dot.

I wear glasses and I recommend the red dot if you can afford it.

 

[ferret427]

For fast reaction shooting, such as self defense, do you notice a difference between the large dot and the small dot? I would guess that muscle memory of a draw/present/shoot would be most important, but learning that sequence might be different with dot size. The only experience I have is the Eotech I have on my SBR, which is a 1 moa dot, and I have not shot it except for load development from a rest.

 

[surevaliance]

There is no training involved with a red dot .
Go to the range site it in at the distance you want .done .
BUT IF YOU ARE USING A RED DOT ON YOUR SELF DEFENSE PISTOL.MMMMMM.
shall I say your a full .
Learn to use real sites.
I tried a red dot on my pistol .they are different.
Great for competition.
But if my life depended on it .nope not my idea of a defense gun.
And I own a $#!+ Load of red dots .they are all on my AR Rifles and i have back up sites on all those guns

I love iron sights.
However, at 52 my eyes don't see them.
Red dot is my saviour.

 

[surevaliance]

For fast reaction shooting, such as self defense, do you notice a difference between the large dot and the small dot? I would guess that muscle memory of a draw/present/shoot would be most important, but learning that sequence might be different with dot size. The only experience I have is the Eotech I have on my SBR, which is a 1 moa dot, and I have not shot it except for load development from a rest.

The one I have on my pistol is 8MOA. Just perfect.

 

[ferret427]

I appreciate all of the advice given in this thread regarding wether or not to use a red dot vs irons on my EDC. I still have a couple of questions from the iron sight or nothing guys as to why.
First of all, my EDC is also my "nightstand" gun. I am looking for a sight system that works best over the widest range of situations. If I do not have access to my glasses and I cannot see my sights, what then? I might as well not have sights on my pistol at all.
I realise that red dots can fail, but many have long battery life, and I can afford a few bucks to replace the battery regularly, say every month wether I need to or not. In addition, the irons will still be on the gun.
From what I have read, a quality optic will be rugged, and I do not expect to be in extreme climates or terrain with this firearm.
I do not like the idea of hanging lights/lasers/(insert accessory here) stuff on my pistol, but I also want to be able to see a sight picture as well as my target, and irons are really getting hard to make that happen. I don't know if a red dot will help me with this, as well as if it is worth the expense, given that I am just a random ordinary guy and my threat assessment is basically equal to the background noise of your random ordinary person.

 

[Jeedia]

Red dots are a great tool. They allow you to threat assess while acquiring a sight picture. But they don't fix the problem of bad eye sight or poor marksmanship. You need to practice and train with your pistol. So you understand how you and your pistol work under stress.

Very few people are self taught. If you are one of these great study and practice away. If not I highly suggest you invest in training and dryfiring regularly. get out into some action bays and see what it's like to shoot multiple targets in differant directions. Or while you and/or the target is moving.

Practice, practice, practice! You can not buy skill, but you can learn it.

 

[Edward Hull]

I switched from the large dot to the small dot because I wanted to buy a backup sight for my backup gun, the type 1 RMRs were on sale, and I like making head shots at the farthest distance available at the indoor ranges. The smaller dot helps with that. This is mostly just a parlour trick, but I suppose you could make a case for some value there.

When I shoot in competitions I'm not looking at the dot, I'm looking at the target. This is precisely why the red dot is the best option. With iron sights, you have to look at the sights and not the threat or the rest of the innocent people. When I buy the next sight I suppose I will go with a smaller MOA option. I have not noticed a significant difference in group size between the two dots when shooting fast and moving.

Practice can't be overemphasized, but I don't think you need red dot specific training. Admittedly I have not taken a red dot class so I might be missing out on some hidden gems. Once the presentation bugs are worked out and you stop looking at the dot it is very intuitive.

Shooting without my glasses is something I can do because I'm far sighted. I can't see my iron sights, but I can see the target and I can definitely put the red blob on the target. The flashlight hanging off your gun will ensure you can PID your target at night before you put the red blob on them. If you prefer a handheld flashlight that is fine, it is really a personal preference type of thing.

 

[ferret427]

There's no doubt I need to shoot a lot more. I have never really been a pistol shooter, but I have come to the conclusion that I need to. 5 years ago I could shoot 3" groups with either my .45, 9mm or .357 at 7 yards. Now I shoot bigger than a dinner plate. I realize most of this is not getting out and shooting, but I have to think some has to be from not being able to use my sights.

 

[Jeedia]

I think a good place to be would be a 6" group at 7 yards as fast as you can pull the trigger. And learn to shrink that to around 4".

 

[skeezix]

I appreciate all of the advice given in this thread regarding wether or not to use a red dot vs irons on my EDC. I still have a couple of questions from the iron sight or nothing guys as to why.
First of all, my EDC is also my "nightstand" gun. I am looking for a sight system that works best over the widest range of situations. If I do not have access to my glasses and I cannot see my sights, what then? I might as well not have sights on my pistol at all.
I realise that red dots can fail, but many have long battery life, and I can afford a few bucks to replace the battery regularly, say every month wether I need to or not. In addition, the irons will still be on the gun.
From what I have read, a quality optic will be rugged, and I do not expect to be in extreme climates or terrain with this firearm.
I do not like the idea of hanging lights/lasers/(insert accessory here) stuff on my pistol, but I also want to be able to see a sight picture as well as my target, and irons are really getting hard to make that happen. I don't know if a red dot will help me with this, as well as if it is worth the expense, given that I am just a random ordinary guy and my threat assessment is basically equal to the background noise of your random ordinary person.

One my 'bump in the night' pistol, I have factory night sights and Crimson Trace laser sight system. The best of both worlds.

 

[bbbass]

I'm gonna have to break down and get a carry optic for my G34 because my last IDPA match sucked due to poor vision. The Big Dot sights are just not working out for me. Too many head shots at distance. The sights are great in closer, say 25' max. (In real close I point shoot.)

Anybody know what the Glock slide model is that is cut for the optic mount and what I should expect to pay for that slide???

 

[Jeedia]

A Glock slide is almost as expensive as a new gun. I would get a gen5 17 and then you can put any optic on it.