Raftman travels to North Korea!

[Trlsmn]

After reading posts from people who's opinions I have a lot of respect for I must reconsider that my posts reflect my own bias against communism. I let that bias cloud my judgement and read what I wanted to read into Raftman's blog, for that I must apologize. So to Raftman I apologize and humble myself for my poor judgement.

Sincerely and with no intended sarcasm

Trlsmn

 

[MarkAd]

Trism is clearly confused, on the difference between an open honest uncontrolled visit and a "state" sponsored tour. The OP can only share what he observed and deduced on his own.
I also think Trism has, with his vitriolic discourse violated at least a portion of rule #1 of the forum rules.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Interesting photos.
I am struck by the lack of people in the public spaces. In any free country, there would be people milling about, both citizens and tourists, taking pictures, and enjoying the (apparently) nice weather.

That speaks volumes to me, yet I didn't read any mention of it in your captions. Clearly an orchestrated visit.
I hope you enjoyed it.

 

[raftman]

Interesting photos.
I am struck by the lack of people in the public spaces. In any free country, there would be people milling about, both citizens and tourists, taking pictures, and enjoying the (apparently) nice weather.

That speaks volumes to me, yet I didn't read any mention of it in your captions. Clearly an orchestrated visit.
I hope you enjoyed it.

But I did make mention of it. On "Day 3" I note that the massive Kim Il Sung square had virtually no one out there aside from people practicing for the mass gymnastics, which occurs only once a year. In the close-up of the square, I note the only foreign-looking faces around are portraits of Marx and Lenin, which creates a contrast with most any other capital city which would generally have a large number of tourists. At their copy of the Arch of Triumph, I note that the only people around a couple of Chinese tourists (their minder is also in that shot). Plus I've got quite a few shots of the city, which seem to speak for themselves in regards to how few people you see that are out and about. I've had a few people tell from seeing those pics "it's eery how desolate it looks, it's as if only 8 people live in that city or something." Many if not most cities have their own public square, our Pioneer Square in Portland is a fraction of the size of Kim Il Sung square and yet you'll invariably see more people at the former, very strange.

"Enjoy" is kind of an odd word in this context. It was interesting, fascinating, on an occasion or two a little frightening, but I'd say it's definitely a worthwhile experience. I knew from the get-go that it would be a very staged experience. It's what gave me pause before I decided to make the trip. Knowing that I wouldn't be free to see what I wanted to see, or photograph what I wanted to photograph, or even encounter people that I'd want to encounter, would it still be worth going there? I decided to go because I figured the kind of facade they try to maintain is impossible to maintain, and glimpses of the real North Korea would always slip through and inferences about it would be very easy to draw despite the constant supervision and censorship. This assumption proved accurate I think.

 

[MA Duce]

My father visited North Korea, but he didn't stay. He was just dropping some stuff off from his B-29. I would submit that no Western visitor will ever know the face of North Korea. My personal stance is even if presented with the chance to visit, I would not give one thin dime to that regime. While the consequences for the helpless citizens would be dire, I think nothing short of a total embargo of all trade will bring this evil mess to an end.

 

[raftman]

After reading posts from people who's opinions I have a lot of respect for I must reconsider that my posts reflect my own bias against communism. I let that bias cloud my judgement and read what I wanted to read into Raftman's blog, for that I must apologize. So to Raftman I apologize and humble myself for my poor judgement.

Sincerely and with no intended sarcasm

Trlsmn

It's no problem, really. I hope I didn't make it sound like I was claiming to having actually fully seen the real North Korea. I think I tried to make my commentary clearly suggest that I knew what was being shown to me wasn't as things really are, which would cause people to think about the way things must really be. As Ma Deuce said, it's impossible for any Westerners, or any outsiders at all really, to be shown the truth, particularly the full truth. My friend and I came under the "tourist" designation, but those coming as journalists, and even diplomats are apparently given essentially the same song and dance. However, my impression of history is that governments like that don't last, I suspect we'll see the end the DPRK within our lifetimes.

 

[elsullo]

Trlsmn, I must ask you straight-up: Are you a Satanist? And is there not PUPPY and KITTEN meat in every culinary dish that you have posted!...............................elsullo

 

[sig40shooter]

Raftman, Great blog! Its good to see a little insight (even if completly controled by the govt) into the country of N Korea. Makes me feel a little better about what we have here... And that we all need to stay united as folks with common interest and fight for our rights so they don't get taken away. Kudos to you and your friend for documenting what you could while making this trip.

 

[Trlsmn]

Trlsmn, I must ask you straight-up: Are you a Satanist? And is there not PUPPY and KITTEN meat in every culinary dish that you have posted!...............................elsullo

That's two questions.......No, I'm a Christian Agnostic. I'll leave you to ponder the meaning of that as there is a rule about discussing religion. Puppy's and Kitten's? no, but I've never been in a situation where it was me or the pet so I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand.......

 

[Siglvr]

Raftman, thanks for the post, the pics make the place look pretty good, I get Trsmans point, but he didn't say it well. So I don't mean my question to be offensive, and don't answer it if you don't want to of course: but why did you travel there? Why N Korea of all places?

Trlmsn, good on you to apologize.

 

[moose]

 

[raftman]

...l. So I don't mean my question to be offensive, and don't answer it if you don't want to of course: but why did you travel there? Why N Korea of all places?

...

It's not offensive, a lot of people asked me the same question when I told them about my plan to go before I actually went, and I figured I'd still get asked after I got back too.

There were quite a few reasons to be honest. I guess all of the references to it as "the hermit kingdom" and the most isolated country in the world all created a sort of mystery about. It's a place relatively few others have been too which filled me with a sort of curiosity. I've always been an insatiably curious person, regardless what they say curiosity does to cats, so before I even knew it was feasible for a US citizen to go there, I thought "wouldn't it be something to go there and see it for myself?" I'm not one of those people that likes to go places just to lounge around on the beach, or buy expensive goods, or any of the real "conventional" stuff. My friend I suppose is much the same way. We looked into it, and found it was actually not THAT difficult to get there, even as Americans. I guess lastly, one of the reasons I went is hoping that I'd leave an impression over there, the hope that I'd serve as a dose of the outside world, maybe get some North Korea to say "You know, the museums, and films tell us the Americans are evil, but those two we saw seemed like kind, decent people." It's a naive-sounding notion I am sure, but the faint hope that my presence could have resulted in the faintest hope of someone having a free thought, to me it's a big deal. There are so few free thinkers in the world.

 

[jordanvraptor]

I sincerely hope that you are right about seeing an end to that regime within our lifetimes. I would be more pessimistic but I have seen the Berlin wall being torn down and the collapse of the Soviet Union. Congrats on the initiative to go outside the box and get a glimpse of something different. A lot of Americans don't and therefore don't appreciate what they have. My time in Afghanistan has changed my views on a lot of things and reinforced those I cherished the most.

 

[Bravo Juliet]

Raftman great stuff. do you mind if i post this on another forum giving you credit?

 

[Siglvr]

It's a place relatively few others have been too which filled me with a sort of curiosity. I've always been an insatiably curious person, regardless what they say curiosity does to cats, so before I even knew it was feasible for a US citizen to go there, I thought "wouldn't it be something to go there and see it for myself?" I'm not one of those people that likes to go places just to lounge around on the beach, or buy expensive goods, or any of the real "conventional" stuff.

Thank you for the answer Raftman. I hang around a lot of people that would describe quite well. It seems that they're always heading out to some remote corner of the world. If I could give one tip it is this: if your curiosity starts in again concerning the isolated and remote Kingdom of Bhuton.....pass. LOL
BBC News - Bhutan country profile

Thanks again for the report, I don't doubt that getting a bunch of Americans in that country wouldn't help those folks see we're not evil.

:woot:

 

[raftman]

Raftman great stuff. do you mind if i post this on another forum giving you credit?

By all means, please do. I put it out there to be read and seen after all.

 

[jordanvraptor]

Sooooooo.... Did the TSA or ICE give you a hard time when coming back into the USA? I would imagine it could be a hassle if you needed to get a security clearance now...

 

[Trlsmn]

Sooooooo.... Did the TSA or ICE give you a hard time when coming back into the USA? I would imagine it could be a hassle if you needed to get a security clearance now...

I was kind of thinking that they are now on a list somewhere at a alphabet soup gov agency.

 

[olydemon]

VBS.tv did a great 3 part video of a trip to N Korea...

Vice Guide to North Korea 1 of 3 - The Vice Guide to Travel | VBS.TV
Vice Guide to North Korea 2 of 3 - The Vice Guide to Travel | VBS.TV
Vice Guide to North Korea 3 of 3 - The Vice Guide to Travel | VBS.TV

 

[raftman]

Sooooooo.... Did the TSA or ICE give you a hard time when coming back into the USA? I would imagine it could be a hassle if you needed to get a security clearance now...

Nope, if they were the least bit concerned, they certainly didn't show it. My admittance back into the USA was pretty much hassle free, or as hassle free as is possible in times like these.

I was kind of thinking that they are now on a list somewhere at a alphabet soup gov agency.

Meh, I didn't break any laws, and all of us here are probably on too many lists to count as it is, yourself included!