Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Raftman travels to North Korea!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by raftman, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. raftman

    raftman Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    261
    Definitely served as a reminder that here in USA, though our freedoms are encroached upon, we're pretty dang free. What's more, it's a reminder of the extreme importance of remaining vigilant so that here doesn't end up like there.

    Here's an honest, detailed write-up of the experience, with plenty of photos of my 5 days in what may be the world's last Stalinist state.

    Portland to Pyongyang
     
  2. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,792
    Likes Received:
    597
    Fascinating! Thanks for posting this.
     
  3. elsullo

    elsullo Portland Oregon New Member

    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    51
    Thanks for this! And I salute the courage you had to even make the trip to such an utterly creepy nation. It's always so amazing to see: all around the world are cultures totally convinced that their way is the only way, and that everybody else is wrong and probably subversive to their perfect way of life............................elsullo
     
  4. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    An honest write up of "your" experience, not an objective write up of the real North Korea, nor could you write one since you did not see the real North Korea.


    So where's the squalor and starvation? Seems like they cherry picked. The Postcard worthy pictures are great, they don't make post cards of slums, squalor and utter deprivation. Basically you are seeing North Korea through the eye's of a Royal Family.

    Beautiful country and beautiful photo's I envy your trip but if you want me to beleive that this is the lifestyle of the average North Korean I laugh in your face!
     
  5. raftman

    raftman Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    261
    Way to be self-righteous. You clearly didn't actually read the blog. I talk about the poverty and squalor but note that our minders strictly control what we are and aren't allowed to photograph. If I were free to photograph anything I chose. I'd have at least 4 times as many pics.
     
  6. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    I read it and it struck me as intellectually dishonest; the criticisms in your piece are frankly what I would expect from a North Korean writer with a gun to his head. Your criticisms are "throwing softballs"and hardly describe even the most minor inconveniences the real North Korean citizen lives with daily. It is what it is, and it is not even close to critical or reality. It makes me think you might have communist sympathies.

    Your experience is akin to me flying a luxury Helicopter straight to Disney World and then later writing a piece on my Florida experience.

    I ask you this straight up, are you a communist, is this propaganda? I don't know this because I don't know you; that is why I ask, so I don't have to assume. Your honest answer is good enough for me.

    In spite of this I still do appreciate your post.
     
  7. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,043
    Likes Received:
    2,188
    Looks a little better than the two times my dad visited back in the 50's. Russia sure helped them rebuild didnt they.
     
    lowly monk and (deleted member) like this.
  8. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    [video=youtube;tTjKWq9Gges]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTjKWq9Gges [/video]
     
    lowly monk and (deleted member) like this.
  9. raftman

    raftman Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    261
    If this is what you think, you're flat out lying about having read the blog. I note that virtually every moment of everyone's time is under thorough surveillance, that one can face jail time for even the most minor "disrespect" to the country's government or leadership. That most people don't seem to have access to even the most basic things like electricity or running water, and that a huge number of people seem to engaging in slave-like toiling. Transportation options are so poor (few seem to own even bicycles) that many people have to travel hundreds of miles on foot. All of that is noted in the blog. How this can be construed as pro-North Korean or Communist propaganda is anyone's guess. Most of the commentary on even the things they DO want us to see suggests that it's quite clearly all a facade, which should lead any logical thinker to infer about what they DON'T want to us to see.

    There are of course lots of things about North Korea far worse than any of the above, massive gulags characterized by brutal, arbitrary and sadistic torture, violent executions; there is simply no such things as justice, for example... but I couldn't comment directly on any of those things because they didn't show us any of that, it would make me a liar to say I've seen/experienced those things because I didn't. They gave us their little song and dance about how nice everything is, as they do with ANY foreigner who enters the country whether as tourist, journalist, or aid worker. The facade is impossible to maintain, you see quite a few things that reveal it as farce, but you're not allowed to photograph most any of it. You have minders with you the whole time, and in case you were able to slip something past them, they also search through all of your recordings, photos and delete anything they deem questionable once you're getting ready to leave.

    In regards to your rather insulting question, I am not a communist, have never been one, and come from a family that's been anti-communist since before the Russian revolution.
     
  10. Asp

    Asp Oregon, the promise land. Active Member

    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    216
    Pm sent.
     
  11. pogi

    pogi Gresham, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    74
    Any hot N. Korean women running around there?

    The museum guide was cute....tough looking but cute. :woot:
     
    Trlsmn and (deleted member) like this.
  12. raftman

    raftman Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    261
    There were a few good looking girls in Pyongyang, quite conservatively dressed of course. It's kind of a showcase city though, so outside of it, people seem to be a lot worse off in terms of clothing, food, etc and so you see a lot more sickly, malnourished looking people outside the city limits.

    It should be noted that a year and a half ago, I wouldn't so much as been allowed in country as a US citizen except for seeing the mass gymnastics. For anyone to expect me to have been allowed to photograph and documen the starving children, or labor camps, or any of that, is pretty beyond unreasonable.
     
  13. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,620
    Likes Received:
    644
    If you like 'em SKINNY, the North has plenty of those!

    Seriously, Trismn, can you please differentiate what you KNOW from what you've been TOLD?
    You have the opportunity here to get a tiny glimpse of the North as a real place, an actual location, and you throw it back in the OP's face? WTF, are you utterly immune to learning anything new?
     
  14. pogi

    pogi Gresham, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    74
    I like them Asian chubby at 5' 2" and 105 lbs. :thumbup:
     
    Trlsmn and (deleted member) like this.
  15. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    Propaganda is new? It is a dog and pony show for the wonderful merits of a personality cult, not just a personality cult but a second generation and soon to be third generation personality cult; very shiny on the surface but rotting from the core. "WTF" indeed.

    Learning anything new? You missed my point, there was nothing to learn from that dog and pony show, it's as fake as Disneyland. I am interested in the real world and real people. I wish only death upon the people in power who perpetuate that kind of phony dog and pony show at the expense of the suffering of millions of "real" people.
     
  16. raftman

    raftman Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    261
    One thing you fail to explain is how any of what I wrote could in any way be construed as pro-communist propaganda, particularly to the the extent you'd even suspect me of being a communist! What part of broken-down buildings, the notion that the country is so horrible that tourists must be lied to at every turn and watched like hawks morning, noon, and night lest they find out the truth or worse still bring back evidence of it to their homeland, what part about writing that most people toil toil endlessly to receive what we consider pocket change, that they don't have what we consider the most basic essentials, what part of saying that their leadership is worshipped as gods, and any deviation bears severe punishment makes it sound like I am at all promoting North Korea or their politics? Frankly your assertion is about as sane as the men you see portraits of all over the DPRK
     
  17. duginsky

    duginsky Tualatin Active Member

    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    46
    I can't see how anything Raftman wrote was construed as pro NK propaganda. I interpreted his blog as clearly indicating that NK had no interest in him or others touring to see the "real" NK that most of us are aware exists and aren't likely to see, and he knows that. I think you'd have to be a bit naive or biased to interpet it otherwise. Each and every time he referenced the portraits strewn about the county of Kim and son, I felt they were digs at the whole "cult of personality," although "cult of personality" is a fairly benign and pop-culture-oriented characterization of the brutality of those who control by fear and power. Trlsman, I always enjoy your posts, but this is, in my unsolicited opinion, off-base.
     
    Cougfan2 and (deleted member) like this.
  18. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,792
    Likes Received:
    597
    I agree Trlsmn. I'm with you most of the time, but you're barking up the wrong tree with this one.
     
  19. aaron

    aaron Prineville OR Member

    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    2
    Great post raftman:)
     
  20. 4x401

    4x401 Oregon New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hear they have great pie!:)