Pre 64 Winchester Rifles

[USAF Medic]

So,
What makes a pre 64 Winchester Rifle
special?

Read More

 

[MountainBear]

Honestly, a good portion of it is collector driven value. In 1964, Winchester decided to ease manufacturing because of cost. The carrier went from machined to stamped, some cuts on the receiver were changed, etc. I haven't had issues with any of the pre-safety Winchesters I've had, both pre and post 64.

 

[Oregon13]

I have a Model 94 from roughly 1970. I think it is an exceptional firearm. Many many many rounds through it, never a hiccup. My grandpa bought it new for my dad, my dad gave it to me, and I will give it to my kids. All the research that I have done has pointed to some design changes in the rifle manufacturing. I personally feel like the pre-64 thing is mostly hype, which built added value. But again, that's mostly just from my internet research, and my own opinion.

 

[jbett98]

If I had a choice between the two, I would take the pre 64.
There is a lot of words written about Winchesters decisions in cutting costs and quality.
I was given a beautiful 1943 model 94 30/30 and I wouldn't think of trading it for a post 64 rifle.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

The pre 64's were coddled more at the factory. More akin to a custom built rifle by todays standards. A lot more attention to detail, craftsmanship and functionality was the norm back then. Pre 64 model 70 rifles were tested and given the stamp of approval before leaving the factory. Some say collectors like them better because of nostalgia and other nonsense, but the guys that buy and collect and use these have a better understanding of what a real rifle is supposed to act like: Smooth effortless feeding, strong reliable extraction and consistent accuracy are some of the reasons I like my pre 64 model 70 rifles.

My 1956 375 H&H:


1956 30-06 fwt:

 

[orygun]

The changes in 1964 were done to lessen the cost of manufacturing, allowing Winchester to sell rifles at a lower, more competitive price. All of the post 64 guns functioned well, but items like pressed, instead of cut checkering and stamped, instead of machined parts screamed "cheap" to the gun guys of the time. The Model 70 was changed from a controlled round feed to a push feed and that offended many, too. The machinery that the Pre-64 guns were made on was worn out and needed to be upgraded. (the early 60's guns are reported to have much sloppier tolerances than the earlier guns) Winchester decided that was the time to make the changes to lower production costs allowing them to offer a less expensive gun. Eventually Winchester reversed many of the changes to the 70. Now they are not built in the States.

 

[Medic!]

The changes in 1964 were done to lessen the cost of manufacturing, allowing Winchester to sell rifles at a lower, more competitive price. All of the post 64 guns functioned well, but items like pressed, instead of cut checkering and stamped, instead of machined parts screamed "cheap" to the gun guys of the time. The Model 70 was changed from a controlled round feed to a push feed and that offended many, too. The machinery that the Pre-64 guns were made on was worn out and needed to be upgraded. (the early 60's guns are reported to have much sloppier tolerances than the earlier guns) Winchester decided that was the time to make the changes to lower production costs allowing them to offer a less expensive gun. Eventually Winchester reversed many of the changes to the 70. Now they are not built in the States.

Bingo!


Things always evolve and change.
And I myself prefer even earlier features on the 94's. Like the longer stocks. And flat bands.
Their slightly different. And look cool to me.

But the whole pre 64 thing was a visibly noticeably difference in build quality as stated above.

It was so bad when they first changed. That they changed back in some areas.
Also quality and appearance did get better after some time.
But by then the damage was done. And perceptions on post 64 guns were set in peoples minds.

Initially even things like solid pins were replaced with rolled pins. Sure they worked. But who wants them? And what is this steel in the receiver that won't take bluing?

 

[bsa1917hunter]

I like that old 94. They don't make them like that anymore. My elk hunting partner uses a 1949 model 94 very similar to that one, but his isn't as nice. It's very well worn, but still works great and shoots great.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

And,,, I will still buy one over a post 64,, I'm just crazy like that.

 

[No_Regerts]

If I could have a rifle made with the craftsmanship of the pre-64 and the tweaks of the newer M70's, I'd be happy. The newer bolt handles are bent a bit differently and they allow for lower scope mounting. The newer bolts have a flange that keeps escaping gasses from blowing into the shooter's face down the left bolt raceway. I also prefer the recessed crown. I also prefer the current stock shape with straight comb and more open grip.

 

[jbett98]

Sounds like a real solution is to own pre and post rifles.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

If I could have a rifle made with the craftsmanship of the pre-64 and the tweaks of the newer M70's, I'd be happy. The newer bolt handles are bent a bit differently and they allow for lower scope mounting. The newer bolts have a flange that keeps escaping gasses from blowing into the shooter's face down the left bolt raceway. I also prefer the recessed crown. I also prefer the current stock shape with straight comb and more open grip.

Great post. You would have really liked the newer FN BACO extreme weather 30-06 I put into a McMillan hunters compact edge stock. It was a damn nice rifle, but got kicked out of the safe by my pre 64 fwt shown in a pic in a previous post. Anyway, at the time I had far too many 30-06 rifles and some of them had to hit the road. Here's the newer EW. She was a dandy:




This was a nice handling, accurate, lightweight package right here..

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Sounds like a real solution is to own pre and post rifles.

I do!

 

[bsa1917hunter]

 

[orygun]

A feature that I appreciate in the newer guns is the availability of getting one in stainless.

 

[No_Regerts]

Great post. You would have really liked the newer FN BACO extreme weather 30-06 I put into a McMillan hunters compact edge stock. It was a damn nice rifle, but got kicked out of the safe by my pre 64 fwt shown in a pic in a previous post. Anyway, at the time I had far too many 30-06 rifles and some of them had to hit the road. Here's the newer EW. She was a dandy:




This was a nice handling, accurate, lightweight package right here..

Man, thats as practical a hunting rifle as it gets and it looks great too. I cant imagine needing anything more. I wish the FWT in SS was still available. A SS FWT in an edge would be perfect for me. I think I could go with a little less scope. A friend has a pre-64 fwt in an edge and I love how it has sights. If the bolt handle would clear Leupold DD lows, It would be that much better.

 

[Crohnos01]

I have a number of pre-64 model 70s. They were built hell for stout back in them days, I can tell you that. I screwed up and fired two bullets down the tube of my pre-64 06, and the rifle took the abuse and kept on shooting.Actions were changed in 64 and didn't have the positive ejection of the earlier Mauser action. If you're interested in all the scoop, read "the rifleman's rifle". It has all the difference changes between the versions and why. The pre-64 preferences were specific to the model 70 bolt actions. The model 94 is a great gun, I have one myself from the mid 50s, but that's not where the big differences were made.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Man, thats as practical a hunting rifle as it gets and it looks great too. I cant imagine needing anything more. I wish the FWT in SS was still available. A SS FWT in an edge would be perfect for me. I think I could go with a little less scope. A friend has a pre-64 fwt in an edge and I love how it has sights. If the bolt handle would clear Leupold DD lows, It would be that much better.

I'm running DD lows on my 30-06 fwt with a 3-9x40 burris FFII. Posted a pic earlier. I am also running DD lows on my 270 fwt:



When I was using a bigger Zeiss 3-9x42, I had to run DD mediums:

 

[salmonriverjohn]

A feature that I appreciate in the newer guns is the availability of getting one in stainless.

Did someone say stainless model 70?
This old classic featherweight has taken literally 1000's of pounds of elk, deer and bear over here on the "wet" side of the state.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Very classy rifle right there John. I like it..