Potential Gun Control Solution

[eternalphoenix64]

For the people saying no, would you mind sharing your thoughts as to why?

Aside from the argument that this would infringe on the right to own (which, admittedly, that could go either way and I am inclined to agree that it likely would), but I would counter that we live in a different society now where fathers and mothers aren't always passing down weapons to their children and teaching them to respect them and use them appropriately like we once did.

For example, the doctrine of the Catholic church has evolved with the changing of the global society. Many of our laws have changed with the evolution of our society (free speech now means free speech but if you don't want to be offensive you should try to be "politically correct", separation of church and state so extreme we no longer say the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, etc.). Wouldn't it then be fair to make minor adjustments to our right to bear arms? (I'll take my grizzly )

 

[eternalphoenix64]

How would a class prevent a theft?

The portion about proper storage and the security thereof. Especially the security.

 

[Phather]

I'm inclined to agree and disagree.... the shooting at Clackamas Town Center for example, the gunman stole an AR-15 from an acquaintance. I'm not saying this is a common occurrence, but it would potentially prevent thefts like that.

It may stop some, but it would be a small percentage. From a recent episode of Frontline on PBS, "Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it." This is just handguns, and other law enforcement estimates place stolen guns used in crime in the range of 10-15%.

Unfortunately, making safety classes mandatory will result in a lot of people rolling their eyes for a few hours in a classroom and learning the material just long enough to pass a test if required. As soon as they leave the building they will forget the information, because they were only in the class because it was mandatory.

 

[SCannon]

I'm for something like the CWL, if you have it you can purchase a firearm. Like the hunter safety card.

 

[sdlsaginaw]

While it's a good idea for someone new to firearms to get some training, requiring it would unfortunately be one more mechanism used to discourage ownership. You can bet the "administrative cost" for the certification would go up, and the availability of "certified" classes would go down. Just read about the process to buy a gun in D.C. (Google "Emily Gets Her Gun"). Hoops to jump through to get permission to buy one (which expires), only one authorized seller with very limited hours and no inventory, etc.

 

[DeanfromOregon]

I'm for something like the CWL, if you have it you can purchase a firearm. Like the hunter safety card.

^^^This. Don't throttle it down, make it appealing to get more training.

 

[eternalphoenix64]

So how about, instead of required..... the class was free to people who have purchased a firearm in the last 6 months? And at a reasonable fee (given the time of the instructor, cost of ammo, use of loaner weapons for those without their own, cleaning and maintenance of loaner weapons) for those who have not? Fair compromise?

 

[DeanfromOregon]

So how about, instead of required..... the class was free to people who have purchased a firearm in the last 6 months? And at a reasonable fee (given the time of the instructor, cost of ammo, use of loaner weapons for those without their own, cleaning and maintenance of loaner weapons) for those who have not? Fair compromise?

See that's a free market thing right there. A firearms training academy/group that could include a discount couple (like $20 off or some such thing) in conjunction with a gun shop they choose to work with. Seems like a win/win/win to me.

 

[solv3nt]

Gun safety - proper posture, proper respect (don't point at others, always treat as if loaded), proper storage and security, proper cleaning
How to shoot safely - Line-of-sight, back drop, general awareness of surroundings, a target-shooting period at the end of the class for your final certification
Self-defense laws - When are you legally allowed to shoot? What could be the consequences? What are the consequences if you fire when you shouldn't?
Carry laws - Open carry, concealed carry. What are the requirements? What are the laws governing? Crossing state lines? Reciprocity?
(anything additional you would add?)

I think this would eliminate a lot of problems that we see with guns today. Stolen guns being used in violent crimes? - proper storage and security (I know this will help very little, but it would still help). Accidental discharges (say, from a child finding) relating in deaths or serious injury? Proper storage and security. Backfires resulting in serious injury? - proper cleaning. Accidents on the range (God, we hope not)? - proper respect. Getting knocked off your feet from recoil (potentially shooting more rounds by accident)? - proper posture. The list goes on.

Where to start...
How to shoot: The majority of gun deaths in America are not from a lack of safety, it is from a blatant disregard for life.
How to secure/clean/store a firearm: 1,412,223 American's were arrested in 2010 for drunk driving. I'm pretty sure that everyone applying for a drivers license know that you can't drink and drive. These are just the ones that are caught and arrested.
FBI — Table 29
Carry Laws/Self-Defense Laws: Going on a limb, but I'm going to say that of the 8,583 American's killed in 2011 by guns, very few were because of a lack of knowledge on self defense/carry laws.
FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8
Stolen guns: How will a mandatory class secure firearms?
Accidental Discharge: I also lump this in the same low category of lack of knowledge on self defense laws.
Backfires: Also a low number.

So far, I see a very hopeful list at best, sort of like the gun grabbers making the argument that by banning the scary black rifle, they will limit the number of gun deaths. The rifle category for 2011, only accounted for 323 of the 8,583, or 3.7% of the annual gun deaths. Scary black rifles are a sub category of rifle.
FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

 

[PiratePast40]

I'm sure all the gangbangers in Chicago will be jumping at the chance to go to a gun safety class. You know these guys are all about being responsible gun owners. Maybe offer a gram of crack as an incentive to attend?

 

[Baggerman]

If people want to attend such a class more power to them but required? No. Use a gun in a crime any crime and do 25 years no parole.

 

[solv3nt]

I have a CPL, I went to the Multnomah County Sheriff's to attain it. I sat through a 2.5 hour class that didn't teach me safety, handling, or laws. It was 2.5 hours of "if you shoot someone you'll probably get sued." It was just another hoop to jump through. There's not an easy way to mandate the sort of class that you are proposing without it being "just another hoop."

 

[Phather]

So how about, instead of required..... the class was free to people who have purchased a firearm in the last 6 months? And at a reasonable fee (given the time of the instructor, cost of ammo, use of loaner weapons for those without their own, cleaning and maintenance of loaner weapons) for those who have not? Fair compromise?

I think this would be good, except modified a bit more. Maybe including a voucher for a free safety class with each new purchase. That way if you are purchasing as a gift (NOT straw purchase, but bona fide gift), you can include the voucher in the box. If you already own 302 guns, then you would just toss the voucher into the recycle bin. The voucher would allow one to go to a number of state-approved training facilities wherein the state would reimburse the facility upon receipt. This would not be mandatory, but I do think that many people don't take safety classes due to the expense, and making it available at no cost to the gun owner would allow many who otherwise wouldn't attend to take a class. Of course, the next problem is how to finance this...

 

[Phather]

Scary black rifles are a sub category of rifle.
FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And only 1 in 30 rifles is a scary black one to boot!

 

[sdlsaginaw]

... the next problem is how to finance this...

^- THIS, since there is no such thing as a free lunch. Plus, how to do it in a way that it isn't used as an ever-increasing tax/fee to discourage ownership.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

How about we enforce current laws, stiffen penalties for those who break them (ie...the Aurora shooter should have started a dirt nap a long time ago).
The only extra governmental action I would THINK about having would be a tax break for quality gunsafes, and either arming teachers or putting.g security in the schools.
Other than that no more asinine rules.

 

[DeanfromOregon]

I have a CPL, I went to the Multnomah County Sheriff's to attain it. I sat through a 2.5 hour class that didn't teach me safety, handling, or laws. It was 2.5 hours of "if you shoot someone you'll probably get sued." It was just another hoop to jump through. There's not an easy way to mandate the sort of class that you are proposing without it being "just another hoop."

LOL! I went to 4 hours at The Place to Shoot in 2001 and they taught me to use a flashlight instead!

Since then I've been to OFA a few times, I think I'm better now.

 

[Kimber Custom]

How did we go from 'shall not be infringed' to NFA tax stamps, background checks, 20,000 local/state/federal laws, gun free zones and licensing for concealed carry? Through well meaning 'if it saves one life' compromise thinking.

Gun violence is as low as it is every going to get. 11k deaths a year out of 310 million people and 280 million guns. Lawful use of guns dwarfs violent use by hundreds to one. There's nothing to fix.

I'm so sick of 'lets have an honest debate'. There's no honest debate. Facts state gun violence is half what it was 20 years ago even through sales are through the roof. Constitutional carry has expanded without any of the mythical shoot outs in the streets over parking spots. States with the most restrictive laws have the worst crime rates. Murder is already illegal with sever penalties and yet it still happens. Meth and cocaine are illegal and yet somehow it's still on the streets. Fake 'assault' rifles are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of violent crime and yet that's where we are focused on? It's not out of honesty, it's out of control.

The 1st says we can speak out against our government. The 2nd says we have the power to enforce the 1st. The 3rd says we don't have to quarter troops. The 4th says we can't be stopped on the street randomly. The 5th says we don't have to incriminate ourselves. Look at the mindset of the Bill of Rights. There's nothing about hunting or sporting.

If you value your liberty; don't accept compromise on your rights. Even if it would save just one more life.

 

[Phather]

^- THIS, since there is no such thing as a free lunch. Plus, how to do it in a way that it isn't used as an ever-increasing tax/fee to discourage ownership.

Simple, we just need to pull our troops out of corners of the world where they don't belong, then we'd have plenty of money for firearms education in schools, a voucher safety program, etc. 'Cause that'll ever happen.

 

[Doctnt]

How would any of that stop the recent epidemic of deranged individuals stealing, violently in some cases, the very firearms to commit the mass shooting with? I believe that all of the recent mass shootings with the exception of Aurora, CO. happened with firearms that were illegally obtained.
I would much rather see the enormous resources being expended on both sides go towards reducing the mental health pandemic in the US.
Any law that the Government imposes will only stop the law abiding citizen and not the criminal which already do not follow even the most reasonable of laws.

Do not mess with the Constitution unless you are ready to dissolve the union and start over?
Doc