PMC 5.56 Ammo blew my rifle up.

[MrMykonos]

Wow keeping an eye on this thread. Thanks for giving us such detailed information. Shame that was a nice rifle.

 

[Towhead]

You own any .300 blackout?

 

[Fieryotaku]

You own any .300 blackout?

In the original post I mention that the brass removed from the chamber was 5.56.

 

[Fieryotaku]

I guess as an update. PMC gave me 1500 rounds of replacement ammo. Geissele gave me a brand new REBCG even though it was bad ammo. Criterion offered to replace my barrel and did.

 

[Tony617]

Wow I have shot 1000s rounds of PMC XTAC 55gr rounds in my AR over the years. Never had any issues at all with the ammunition. I glad you had all of your issues resolved.

 

[Xmark1]

They just got back to me.View attachment 1429595

Yea, send all the evidence to us so we can avoid a lawsuit, after it mysteriously gets lost when we never received it.

 

[JDubDub]

Yea, send all the evidence to us so we can avoid a lawsuit, after it mysteriously gets lost when we never received it.

Um…no. I spent my career in the consumer rights/customer service dept of a major consumer electronics company. We did ask to see any device and made ABSOLUTELY certain to never lose anything a customer ever sent in. "Accidentally" losing anything a customer sent in was tantamount to admitting fault and giving the customer a golden ticket to win any claims. We had postal inspectors searching desperately for packages the USPS lost more than once.

 

[Yarome]

I guess as an update. PMC gave me 1500 rounds of replacement ammo. Geissele gave me a brand new REBCG even though it was bad ammo. Criterion offered to replace my barrel and did.

Ahh.... that's where your 1500rds of PMC classified listing came from. "New upper fund".

That's also one of the advantages of going with quality components. Not that I'm not sure there wasn't some fine print in there somewhere absolving them of any potential claims when they made you whole, but... reputable companies actually care about their customers and their product reputations.

I've always steered clear of absolute budget ammo for that very reason. Not that more reputable suppliers can't have issues, too... but I always play the odds. Mitigating risk at the cost of a few more cents per round seems like a small price to pay, IMHO. In this case, no one got hurt, but plenty of people aren't so lucky and you can't really put a price tag on a missing digit or losing an eye.

Just sayin....

 

[gmerkt]

I've considered PMC sold commercially as decent, quality ammo. Bad things can happen with any product. Just not as often with better stuff.

When you think about it, a .223 case will only hold so much powder. Propellants that I use usually fill or come close to filling the case without compression. I don't load at the top end of the scale, either. So it makes me wonder, with so little case capacity left over (if any) on a "standard" load, how much additional, unwanted powder does it take to blow the gun up?

 

[BrentN]

I guess as an update. PMC gave me 1500 rounds of replacement ammo. Geissele gave me a brand new REBCG even though it was bad ammo. Criterion offered to replace my barrel and did.

Nice to see those brands doing you solid even when it wasn't their fault. Very cool.

 

[Towhead]

In the original post I mention that the brass removed from the chamber was 5.56.

Nice to see they hooked you up,
but you do know how .300 Blackout
is born.

And shooting in the dark.

With friend.

And my question?

 

[sk8willy1]

I guess as an update. PMC gave me 1500 rounds of replacement ammo. Geissele gave me a brand new REBCG even though it was bad ammo. Criterion offered to replace my barrel and did.

That all sounds great, really. All manufacturers seemed to step way up to help out. That's awesome. Glad nobody was hurt, and that everybody stepped up to the plate to help out.

 

[po18guy]

I guess as an update. PMC gave me 1500 rounds of replacement ammo. Geissele gave me a brand new REBCG even though it was bad ammo. Criterion offered to replace my barrel and did.

Good that everyone manned up. Sounds like a bad lot or potential missed recall? Regardless, whatever semi rifle you use, make sure to check disconnect function. Out of battery ignition, like unsupported chambers, is a universal bad thing. Combining parts from several manufacturers 'may' increase the likelihood.

 

[Xmark1]

Um…no. I spent my career in the consumer rights/customer service dept of a major consumer electronics company. We did ask to see any device and made ABSOLUTELY certain to never lose anything a customer ever sent in. "Accidentally" losing anything a customer sent in was tantamount to admitting fault and giving the customer a golden ticket to win any claims. We had postal inspectors searching desperately for packages the USPS lost more than once.

IMHO there is a massive difference between a defective electronic component and a firearm mishap.
Liability for defective consumer electronic components is small.
Liability for a firearm injury can be in the millions.

Even if there was not physical harm, there might be psychological trauma that never goes away. I would argue this in a courtroom.
As a result, PMC might go the way of Remington.
There are times when mistakes/failures are not an option. Especially when customers are trusting an ammo manufacturer with their life.

 

[DangerDog]

Dang. I guess I need to check the lot numbers on all my PMC. This is why you save the factory boxes the ammo came in.

 

[gmerkt]

IMHO there is a massive difference between a defective electronic component and a firearm mishap.
Liability for defective consumer electronic components is small.
Liability for a firearm injury can be in the millions.

The truth in this statement is hard to dispute. Like the difference between being in a typical car accident vs. an airplane crash. Yes, there are some pretty terrible car wrecks, but so many more that are walk-aways. Plane crashes, I'd guess that the fatality per accident rate in those is much higher statistically than ground vehicles. It's just the difference in the nature of the two forms of travel.

With ammo, the potential for harm is greater than most other consumer goods. Yet, each single cartridge is relatively inexpensive. How much care can we expect the ammo manufacturers to put into each single one? I suppose they could hire more inspectors on the production lines, or buy more equipment to do it robotically or whatever. But all the added fail-safes come at higher consumer cost. Using the product involves risk. Every time you pull the trigger on a loaded round, there is a small but mighty, controlled explosion going off next to your face.

 

[clanhanson]

Dang. I guess I need to check the lot numbers on all my PMC. This is why you save the factory boxes the ammo came in.

I dump ammo in plastic ammo cans, thousands of rounds of mixed manufacturers and various decades of production. I like to live on the edge

 

[WAYNO]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and ask how anyone really knows why this gun blew up? Maybe the ammo, maybe the firearm, maybe something lodged in the chamber or bore, maybe just a gun failure.

We can't prove it was the ammo. We can't prove it was purely firearm related. We can't prove the operator didn't have a hand in this. So for the ammo and/or firearm/parts company to step forward and help out, is good of them all, but why continue to unequivocally claim it was the fault of the ammo?

It wasn't that long ago, I blew up a 10mm 1911. Ruger claimed it was the ammo. The ammo company wasn't interested. Neither Ruger or the ammo company stepped forward to help out. It was only because of Davidson's Lifetime Warranty that the pistol was ultimately replaced. For me to blame the ammo would be a copout. And it was a copout for Ruger to blame the ammo. And I don't believe the ammo was the culprit at all. But I'm not just gonna automatically blame an ammo company to give everybody else an easy way out.

I repaired a lot of M-16's while I was in the Army. Some of them pretty mangled. Never once did we jump to the conclusion that bad ammo damaged the gun. We jumped to the conclusion that the AR is fragile, and they just blow up when they feel like it. If the Army thought for a second the failures were purely ammo related, they could have sent a lot of repair bills to the ammo company.

 

[Savage Jav]

Fortunately no the AR did what it was designed to do and failed safely blowing all debris away from the shooter.

How damaged was the receiver

 

[JDubDub]

IMHO there is a massive difference between a defective electronic component and a firearm mishap.
Liability for defective consumer electronic components is small.
Liability for a firearm injury can be in the millions.

Even if there was not physical harm, there might be psychological trauma that never goes away. I would argue this in a courtroom.
As a result, PMC might go the way of Remington.
There are times when mistakes/failures are not an option. Especially when customers are trusting an ammo manufacturer with their life.

We dealt with 2 or 3 fatalities annually - generally from fires or electrocution. In general I'd say the potential risk from consumer electronics is much higher than you'd see in the firearms world. A li-po battery failure can easily cause a house fire that would destroy an entire building - just take a look at the double digit fatalities in New York City from e-bike battery fires. Failure in a firearm may injure the shooter and possibly a few bystanders.

People have a very distorted sense of the risk associated with consumer electronics. I cringe every time I see someone stick their phone in their pocket or climb into anything like a Tesla. Li-po batteries are frankly terrifying.

Still doesn't change the basic gist of my argument - I'd have absolutely zero issue sending a firearm or other device involved in a non-fatal incident to the manufacturer. The manufacturer would have to be completely insane to intentionally lose the item.