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Please tell seller it is legal to sell outstate....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by mike sr., Feb 28, 2010.

  1. mike sr.

    mike sr. the great tax me state: Nebr Member

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    There is a rifle I 'wanted' to buy from a Seller in Northwest Areas. But the Seller is ignorant of the laws concerning selling / transfer across state lines.

    He is blissfully ignorant!!! Or I am being played like a fish on a line!

    I have sent him veriifable information with source notations and I have gotten nowhere... :(

    -----------------

    A Seller in Oregon(or any other state) can sell a firearm to a resident in any state provided Seller follow simple legal guidlines. To a resident of his OWN state he should follow 'his' state's rules.....and not all Federal laws apply to his in state private transfer.

    A Seller in Oregon can sell his gun to me provided these laws are followed:

    A] ANY LEGAL FFL in my state can receive a firearms from a person*** living in another state.

    B] That person*** does not have to be a FFL holder!!!


    C] That person*** does not have to have to use an FFL holder to ship his gun to another FFL in an other state PERIOD! If ya wanna spend the extra money vs getting educated about the law...go ahead it's your money!


    D] LONG GUNS CAN BE SHIPPED via any carrier USPS INCLUDED.

    E] A NON-FFL HOLDER CAN NOT SHIP A HANDGUN VIA USPS but can use other carrier's: FED X, USP etc.

    This is not rocket science!
     
  2. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    This is not a classified ad :thumbup:

    Moved
     
  3. mike sr.

    mike sr. the great tax me state: Nebr Member

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    ===========================

    From my ltd experience here there are a ton of seller's who are oblivious to the information I posted.

    Maybe there should be a STICKY in CLASSIFIED pointing this out!!!!

    Where was it moved to?

    Oh...moved to here...duh.... :pound:
     
  4. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    I agree with most of what you said, with a little doubt surrounding the part where you can ship long guns via any carrier. I was under the impression that handguns had to be overnighted, and long guns didnt have to be. But NIETHER are accepted by USPS, and must be shipped via UPS -AT A UPS LOCATION THAT IS AUTHORIZED TO SHIP FIREARMS-, because not any UPS store location can ship out a gun.

    It is possible that the seller in your case just didn't want to ship outside of Oregon, and used the confusion of the rules as an excuse? Sounds likely to me, considering that if the person didn't trust you for the answers, they could have easily called their local law enforcement office and found out for themselves.

    My suggestion to you is to find the gun you want elsewhere. -tree
     
  5. mike sr.

    mike sr. the great tax me state: Nebr Member

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    ========================

    Strike 1 ---WRONG ON SHPPING LONG GUNS via USPS....WRONG ON SHPPING LONG GUNS via USPS...

    Strike 2 --- WRONG ON SHPPING HAND GUNS OVER NIGHT...WRONG ON SHIPPING HANDGUNS OVER NITE...

    Strike 3 --- LACK OF AWARENESS of the law...


    =========================

    "My suggestion to you is to find the gun you want elsewhere."

    Awareness of the law expands the potential market for legal sale and transfer. And one should use this 'tool' to one's legal benefit and not be afraid of it....

    Awareness of the law nu
     
  6. SlickJoeSD

    SlickJoeSD Astoria, OR Member

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    FedEx firearms policy:

    4. Restrictions specific to FedEx SameDay (Excerpted):

    2 (a): The following items are prohibited and will not be acceptable for shipment by FedEx SameDay service: Firearms.

    4. Firearms. FedEx will only accept shipments of firearms when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by federal, state or local regulations when these conditions are met. FedEx will accept and deliver firearms between all areas served in the U.S. and Puerto Rico.

    Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight and may not be sent C.O.D. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the shipper is required to inform FedEx that the package contains a firearm. Firearms may not be shipped in one complete piece. When tendered for shipment, the firearm must be rendered inoperable, either by removing the firing pin in the gun and disconnecting the barrel, or by some other means so the package does not contain a completely assembled, usable weapon. The outside of the package should bear no label, marking, or other written notice that a firearm is contained within. This includes the abbreviation of the name of the shipper or recipient if the name would clearly indicate that the package could contain a firearm. Firearms and ammunition may not be shipped in the same package. Ammunition is always an explosive and must be shipped as Dangerous Goods. Signature release is not available for shipments containing firearms.

    The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws including those pertaining to labeling. The local division office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) can provide assistance with the packaging and shipment of firearms.

    United Parcel Service firearms policy:
    Customers must observe the following procedures to ship firearms, including handguns, via UPS:

    UPS accepts firearm shipments from UPS daily pickup accounts and through UPS Customer Counters. UPS daily pickup accounts can also ship firearms, not including handguns, through UPS Internet Shipping, On Call Air Pickup®, and One-Time Pickup. Firearms are not accepted for shipment via UPS Letter Centers, UPS SonicAir BestFlightSM service, or international service. Firearms will not be accepted when presented for shipment at a UPS Authorized Shipping Outlet or a UPS Commercial Counter.

    UPS accepts handgun shipments from UPS daily pickup accounts and through UPS Customer Counters. Handguns are not accepted for shipment via UPS Letter Centers, UPS SonicAir BestFlight service, UPS Internet Shipping, UPS On Call Air Pickup, UPS One-Time Pickup, or international service. Handguns will not be accepted when presented for shipment at a UPS Authorized Shipping Outlet or a UPS Commercial Counter.

    Firearm shippers shipping through a UPS Customer Counter must have a letter on record with UPS stating their status as an authorized firearm shipper.

    The shipper must affix a UPS label, requesting an adult signature upon delivery, to each package containing a firearm.

    Packages containing handguns must be shipped via UPS Next Day Air Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver®¹ service.

    Packages containing handguns must be segregated from other packages being tendered to UPS. Handgun shippers must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Counter clerk of any package containing a handgun.

    UPS prohibits the inclusion of ammunition in packages containing firearms, including handguns.

    In locations where a UPS Next Day Air service is not offered, packages containing handguns must be shipped via the most premium domestic air service available.

    See also Page 5 (Item 425) of the UPS Tariff, "Firearms and Ammunition," which, new for 2003, states:

    Firearms will be transported only between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers and licensed collectors… to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer for the sole purpose of repair or customizing, and the repaired firearm or a replacement firearm of the same kind or type on return from the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer to that person.²

    United States Postal Service
    And then there's always the good ol' Post Office… there's one in every town, doncha know?! And just as there's a whole lot of mis-information circulating about whether someone can legally carry a concealed weapon on U.S.P.S. property, so too are too many confused about who can mail a firearm, and what kind of firearm can be mailed. For the best information on this, we have U.S.P.S. itself! Note carefully, however under 4.0 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms where it states:
    The United States Postal Inspection Service has released Handbook HBK IS-135, Firearms, approximately 94 pages in length.

    The manual covers firearms policy, training and qualification standards, safety rules and range procedures, the Service Revolver, the Service Pistol, Fundamentals of Precision Shooting, Shotgun, Stun Weapon, Judgmental Firearms Training.

    A copy may be obtained by sending a written Freedom of Information Act request, to:

    United States Postal Inspection Service
    Office of the Counsel - Information Disclosure
    475 L'Enfant Plaza SW Room 3411
    Washington, DC 20260-2181
    phone: 202-268-4420
    fax: 202-268-7741

    Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.

    This brings us ultimately back to ATF, and a FAQ of their own:

    May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?

    A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

    May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?

    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922(a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

    So, if you are not a licensee (an FFL-holder), you can send a handgun via common carrier, not the U.S. mail, and the recipient must be an FFL holder. If you are an FFL-holder, you can, with the filing of a Form 1508 ("Statement by Shipper of Firearms") with your local post office, send a handgun through the mails. This Form must be filed for each individual shipment.

    Finally, there's one additional issue which is invariably asked about:

    May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
     
  7. PinkhamR

    PinkhamR Altus, Oklahoma MSgt, USAF (Retired)-FFL Lifetime Supporter

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    I have shipped many handguns and long guns to an FFL via USPS ...... The 'overnight' rule for handguns, for UPS and FEDEX, are their rules, not the goverments.

    Straight from the ATFE website;

    B. UNLICENSED PERSONS
    (B1) To whom may an unlicensed
    person transfer firearms under the
    GCA?
    A person may sell a firearm to an
    unlicensed resident of his State, if he
    does not know or have reasonable
    cause to believe the person is prohibited
    from receiving or possessing
    firearms under Federal law. A person
    may loan or rent a firearm to a resident
    of any State for temporary use
    for lawful sporting purposes, if he
    does not know or have reasonable
    cause to believe the person is prohibited
    from receiving or possessing
    firearms under Federal law. A person
    may sell or transfer a firearm to a
    licensee in any State. However, a
    firearm other than a curio or relic may
    not be transferred interstate to a licensed
    collector.
    [18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27
    CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


    (B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm
    by common or contract carrier?
    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm
    by a common or contract carrier to a
    resident of his or her own State or to
    a licensee in any State. A common or
    contract carrier must be used to ship
    a handgun. In addition, Federal law
    requires that the carrier be notified
    that the shipment contains a firearm
    and prohibits common or contract
    carriers from requiring or causing any
    label to be placed on any package
    indicating that it contains a firearm.
    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3),
    922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and
    478.30]
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2010
  8. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    "local law enforcement office "

    Odds are they don't know federal law either.

    It's just like FFL'S that wont accept shipment from an individual.
     
  9. mike sr.

    mike sr. the great tax me state: Nebr Member

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    Love your Username:

    BUT YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN ABOUT OVERNITE SHIPPING OF HANDGUNS...there are One or
    Two sentences that I am COMPLETLEY AWARE OF AND HAVE READ AND ARE POSTED FOR ALL TO READ ... and to an ELITE few who want to DISCOVER on the net....they explain how to ship a HANDGUN for way less than the thievery of UPS OR FedX....

    In order for me to provide you with the SECRET information it will cost you..... 2 SNICKER ALMOND BARS...gonna rephrase this..... :) ...:) ... :)

    IF ANY OF YOU WANT THIS SECRET INFORMATION THE PRICE OF ADMISSION IS TWO SNICKER ALMOND BARS.....i don't want it to be known that I am a cheap
     
  10. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    I have only shipped outside my State once, and never professed to be an expert on the laws surrounding it. Yes, I may not be read up completely on those laws, but the fact is, I don't really need to be because I rarely ever ship outside of Oregon. The point of my post was to agree that the seller in your case may be misinformed, or may be intentionally telling you he is misinformed, and to try to find your gun from someone else. You seem to have taken a defensive stance to my post, which is fine, but you'll probably never see me post to another one of your threads again. Good luck to you.
     
  11. PinkhamR

    PinkhamR Altus, Oklahoma MSgt, USAF (Retired)-FFL Lifetime Supporter

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    Duplicate Post
     
  12. PinkhamR

    PinkhamR Altus, Oklahoma MSgt, USAF (Retired)-FFL Lifetime Supporter

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    I have shipped a handgun, USPS Priority Mail, to an FFL for under $20 .... Insured!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2010
  13. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the seller doesn't want to go through the hassle of shipping out of state and wants a FTF only...?

    Keith
     
  14. mike sr.

    mike sr. the great tax me state: Nebr Member

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    ==========================================


    For you to be so thin skinned is abhorrent to me! I do not want to be deprived of any intellectual honesty from you PERIOD :eek:.... but do as you wish...
     
  15. mike sr.

    mike sr. the great tax me state: Nebr Member

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    ==========================

    That is quite possible but our PM's absolutely did not elude to that thought!
     
  16. mike sr.

    mike sr. the great tax me state: Nebr Member

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    You must be a dealer but I am not...this SECRET INFORMATION benefits 'us' non FFL holders...so we do not get ROBBED using UPS or FEDX.

    Come ON...send me the Almond bars and you will be in this ELITE club...
     
  17. mike sr.

    mike sr. the great tax me state: Nebr Member

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    TO ALL WHO HAVE RESPONDED:

    I CERTAINLY HOPE YOU ARE NOT OFFENDED BY MY POST OR RESPONSES: NO INTENTION OF INFLICTING A POMPOUS, ARROGANT PERCEPTION.


    In all honesty and with sincere intention if I have offended any one I am sorry.

    Going to bed I am exhausted...
     
  18. jkraig

    jkraig West Linn, Oregon New Member

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    This is great information. Keep it coming along with all of the secrets. LOL
     
  19. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think you were offensive, but all of the reds and blues hurt my poor eyes :bluelaugh: .

    Keith
     
  20. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Here is your price---Now tell




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