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Here I am referring to original plains rifles...not the currently made Lyman Plains Rifle.
Which is a fine rifle...just not the one I am taking about in this post.

A plains rifle is a modern generic term for a rifle that was made to used on the America Great Plains for big game.
The period correct terms are Trade Rifle or Sporting Rifle.
Calibers generally range from .45 - .60 . ( Two of the more common calibers are .47 and .52 )
Do not use the caliber alone as guide to how old the rifle is....as these calibers are seen through out this type of rifle's time periods of use.
Caliber by the way...is a more modern term...the 18th and 19th century term was balls to the pound or gauge....

Stocks are usually either maple or walnut , full or half-stocked...the maple is usually plain..but not always....
Many Leman Plains rifles with maple stocks have been artificially striped...So much like today , a rifle with a pretty wood stock may have been a selling point.
Ignition may be flint or percussion.

Patch boxes and or cap boxes are seen from time to time...if engraved , the engraving is sparse ( usually ) .
Furniture will be brass or iron..at times it can be mixed...
But if this was done on purpose or if it was a period repair , may be tough to tell.

Many rifles of this type were used in the Fur Trade and are called "Trade Rifles"...as in rifles for use in the fur trade or gun trade.
These rifles were meant to be used both by trappers and for trading to the tribes for pelts , hides , horses , etc...
Trade rifles were "mass produced" on a basic pattern , many folks working together to make one rifle...on a assembly line in a factory.
Rifles of this type are fine , sturdy rifles , made to work ...but as a rule not as finely finished as a "sporting rifle" of the time period.
An exception to this , is the trade rifle , known as Chief's grade guns / Rifles...these are more finely finished and often have silver inlays , carving and engraving.

Some rifles of this type , are US marked...and were used as gifts for various tribes....these rifles so marked are referred to as Treaty Rifles
Treaty rifles at times came in smaller caliber such as .38 and .44 caliber.
A popular theory for this is that these calibers are better suited for hunting smaller game , like deer and such and not as good for warfare.
I have not seen a 19th century period reason for the rifles with the smaller calibers ...so take the above popular theory with a grain of salt.

Sporting Rifles...
Sporting Rifles are much like Trade Rifles but , more finely finished and not as uniform in regards to a pattern.
Calibers range from .31 - .60
Favorites being .31 , .38 , .47 and .53
Ignition may be either flint or percussion...and the stocks are again seen in maple or walnut , full or half stock.

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J. Henry Trade Rifle...Maple Stock , flintlock , smoothbore .58 caliber circa 1800-1820

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Leman Trade Rifle...Maple stock , artificially striped , percussion lock .50 caliber rifled...circa late 1830's - 1840's

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Sporting Rifle made by F.E. Seiferth in St. Louis...Walnut stock , percussion lock .50 caliber rifled...circa 1840's -1850's

All three of the above rifles are still in use...both as shooting / hunting rifles or in my displays.
Andy
 
As much as reading books is enjoyable, sometimes having information spelled out is extremely useful, and especially in an area of interest.
Appreciate the paring down and summing up very much. Gives a starting point of knowledge until more can be read to fill out the details. What a time period to study anyway!

Interesting no 18th 19th century reasons given for the smaller caliber; do your personal theories agree with popular theory?!
Would a "plains" rifle have included a Hawken then? Not used for trade necessarily, but used by trappers?
Glad you have time to post, and that you included rifle pics...:)
 
DAMN! LOVE that Sporting Rifle! I would hunt that rifle all the time if I had it! It may be even sexier then the Hawkin type, which is sayin something!
I especially love the patch box and the trimmings, those guys sure knew how to make a fine rifle!
 
Thank you for the kind words.

Interesting no 18th 19th century reasons given for the smaller caliber; do your personal theories agree with popular theory?!
No they do not...many historians and magazine / book writers have put forth this theory and or repeated it.
I haven't found a 19th century reason for the smaller caliber....That doesn't mean that there ain't one...it just means that I haven't found one , yet.
Since the fur trade was really all about making money and the Government was cheap....ERR...was into being thrifty....Maybe the reason for the smaller calibers was that it was cheaper in the long run for the Indian Agencies....as it took less powder and lead to shoot a .38-.44 caliber rifle , than a .47-.53 caliber rifle...
I don't really know for sure....

Would a "plains" rifle have included a Hawken then? Not used for trade necessarily, but used by trappers?
Yes...A Hawken Rifle would be a Plains rifle.
( The Hawken Bros. did make smaller caliber rifles for the local trade as well )
Hawken rifles start showing up on Fur Trade Ledgers in the late 1830's at Fort Union and Bent's Fort.
A Hawken Rifle was about $25.00 -$35.00 dollars at that time....
A J.Henry Rifle was about $15.00 -$20.00 dollars at that time...
And a Leman in the 12.50-$17.00 dollar range.

A Hawken Rifle at that time , was more of a prestige type rifle....Similar to the upper end hunting rifles of our time.
Kinda like ,You will see far more Remington 700 rifles , than a say a Cooper rifle out and about.

Trappers and Indians would have used Hawken rifles...but...
At a later date ( as a general rule ) than the "Rendezvous Period " ( 1825-1840 )
Hawken's were in use by the late 1830's...hit a high in the mid 1840's a peak in the 1850's and 1860's with a slow decline in the 1870's.
Andy
 
Perhaps you could 'Splain the conflicting descriptions of types, specifically in describing a weapon as a "Musket" and why if any reason for the confusion! I see rifles described as Muskets or Rifled Muskets, and even Musketoons, but those terms tend to confuse things!
 
Perhaps you could 'Splain the conflicting descriptions of types, specifically in describing a weapon as a "Musket" and why if any reason for the confusion! I see rifles described as Muskets or Rifled Muskets, and even Musketoons, but those terms tent to confuse things!

Well....:D
A musket is a military smoothbore firearm , meant to fire a round ball or shot.
Usually found without a rear sight...
Matchlock , flintlock and percussion are the most commonly seen.
Calibers are generally in the .65-.80 caliber range.
Usually stocked in walnut and capable of taking a bayonet.
The barrels are in the 40-50 inch range.
Muskets were used by Infantryman.

Musketoons
Are shorter versions of muskets...
Found in both flint or percussion...
At times they are also in a smaller caliber such as .62
And finally they can also be rifled.
These were mostly used by Dragoons , Artillerymen , Engineers and the like...

A Rifled Musket is rifled...and meant to be used with a conical projectile.
It will also have a rear sight...
Usually found in the percussion system as the rifle musket came about in the 1840's...it hit the big time in our War of 1861-1865.
Otherwise it looks like a musket of the time period.
Rifled Muskets were used by both Infantry and Riflemen.

Rifles can be both civilian or military...
At times military rifles like the :
US Contract rifles of 1792 / 95
The 1803 "Harpers Ferry" Rifle...
The "Mississippi" 1841 pattern Rifle...
Did not take a bayonet...

Then of course in period literature there are examples of terms like :Trade Musket and Fusil..
A trade musket may refer to a Trade Gun ..which was a lightweight smoothbore , made for use in the fur trade.
Fusil may refer to a Trade gun , a fowling piece or a lightweight musket made for NCO's or Officers...
And don't get me started on Smoothrifles or Rifle Mounted Fusils ...
Which looked just like rifles....but were made as smoothbores...to use both round ball and or shot.
Andy
 
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You keep posting all these beautiful photos and it reminds me I haven't found or built the right black powder rifle yet. Somehow, after seeing all your beautiful collection, a cheap traditions kit just isn't going to scratch the itch.
 
You keep posting all these beautiful photos and it reminds me I haven't found or built the right black powder rifle yet. Somehow, after seeing all your beautiful collection, a cheap traditions kit just isn't going to scratch the itch.
Traditions makes a good rifle....
If ya want to make it better ( For historically purposes ) ditch the sights , front and rear for period correct ones....maybe inlet a "Leman" style patch / cap box , toss in some light engraving and checkering ...and done.
With that said....
The lockworks will have coil spring..those are a 20th century thing...and at times , don't work as well at a traditional leaf spring lock....
Andy
 
Sarco has .54 caliber octagonal rifled blanks on sale right now, and the right lock works can be found in a number of places, and I know a guy with some very fine stock blanks! Lol
It's s sure tempting ain't it?
I also know how to do the patch boxes and other trimmings and have the proper torches for silver work!
 
Sarco has .54 caliber octagonal rifled blanks on sale right now, and the right lock works can be found in a number of places, and I know a guy with some very fine stock blanks! Lol
It's s sure tempting ain't it?
I also know how to do the patch boxes and other trimmings and have the proper torches for silver work!
Would love to see a rifle made by you....
When we finally meet up....I'll have to bring that Sporting Rifle , so you can shoot it....:D
Andy
 
That would be awesome! And I will bring a couple of Colts for you to shoot and admire!
It's kind of a cool thought, our respective interests in arms overlap era's and the transition between true muzzle loaders, to percussion fired "cartridges" to self contained cased cartridges, and there is so much of our country's history contained within that time period!
 
Since the fur trade was really all about making money and the Government was cheap....ERR...was into being thrifty....Maybe the reason for the smaller calibers was that it was cheaper in the long run for the Indian Agencies....as it took less powder and lead to shoot a .38-.44 caliber rifle , than a .47-.53 caliber rifle...
Ahhh, "follow the money", makes good sense to me, and time and again history has proven it true.
 
Sarco has .54 caliber octagonal rifled blanks on sale right now, and the right lock works can be found in a number of places, and I know a guy with some very fine stock blanks! Lol
It's s sure tempting ain't it?
I also know how to do the patch boxes and other trimmings and have the proper torches for silver work!
Don't do like I did and buy a blank 4" longer than your lathe can handle. I ended up having to have a machine $hop tap and crown it for me.:eek:
 
I loved the videos of Hershel House building rifles the "old" trad. way.
When did the barrel making way of welding two halves together end?
Did 'they' then go to drilling?
Like reading the history of making rifles from the day.
 
The drilling ( I'm guessing the cutting of the grooves here ) has been around since rifles were , well rifles...since the late 1500's I'd guess.
The oldest rifle that I owned , was a Austrian rifle from 1670 ( so marked on the barrel ) ...it had straight rifling...no twist at all.
Some folks were still welding "skelps" of iron together to make a barrel into the early 20th century.
Andy
 
I must confess that the absolute SHEER art form of producing an effective (and absolutely gorgeous to look at) firearm with the technology available back then is a profound testament to human abilities and talent.


Andy, thanks for your eloquent history lesson on these American beauties. BTW- times like these make me thankful for the modern vernacular, else I'd be in cardiac arrest from constantly snickering and LMAO....


Caliber by the way...is a more modern term...the 18th and 19th century term was balls to the pound or gauge....


I can't help myself, I was a happy baby back in the day. :s0053:




;)
 
@Stomper
Yep some of the terms sure do need context....
Double throated cock...
Half Cock...
Fly...
Tumbler...
Frizzen...
Vent Hole...
Nipple
Nipple Pick...
Balls...
Ball Bag...
Lube...
Ramrod...
All bring out the Beavis and Butthead snicker...:D

And thanks for your kind words on the history of these rifles.
Andy
 

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