Pistol Caliber AR Suggestion

[Joe Link]

I'd take a close look at the Extar EP9, I think it checks a lot of your boxes and the price ($419+shipping/transfer) can't be beat. Low weight and lack of recoil are my two favorite things about it.

Anyone know anything about Extar Firearms (EP9 EP45 EP10)?

Extar EP9 9mm Glock Mag PDW - $419 - Buy Factory Direct

 

[Alexx1401]

I've been curious on one of these for my wife. Anyone handled one? Could be close to what you are looking for. Not trying to highjack your thread

Aero Survival Rifle Multi-Caliber Package

I have 3 of these in 9mm, 10mm, and .45. They all work great. Only downside is I found out after I bought them that the owner of the place is a real dirt bag. There is another carbine on the same design called the "Just Right Carbine". Looks to be a very close copy although I have never actually handled or shot one. For the price of these you can buy the newer Ruger but its still only 9mm. I LOVE mine. It soon became the best money I ever spent. They should eventually be made in other calibers, at least I hope

 

[CountryGent]

I think you had your answer in the 30 carbine.
Just stop playing with junk. And get an original G.I. rifle.

Could be. I'm not entirely sure what to look for, considering the myriad of original and commercial carbines out there. And a few I've played with over the years were truly shot out. The theory was to buy new and avoid that. Silly me, because that AO turned out to be a pile.

I'd take a close look at the Extar EP9, I think it checks a lot of your boxes and the price ($419+shipping/transfer) can't be beat. Low weight and lack of recoil are my two favorite things about it.

Anyone know anything about Extar Firearms (EP9 EP45 EP10)?

Extar EP9 9mm Glock Mag PDW - $419 - Buy Factory Direct

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[American123]

Recoil is a product of the mass of the projectile x velocity it's propelled at.

If .223 is too much, then 9mm being twice the weight even at a much lower velocity will likely be too much.

If you aren't content with .22 lr, go 5.7 and be done with it.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Recoil is a product of the mass of the projectile x velocity it's propelled at.

If .223 is too much, then 9mm being twice the weight even at a much lower velocity will likely be too much.

If you aren't content with .22 lr, go 5.7 and be done with it.

Not always. Operating system also plays into the felt recoil thing. Gas Operation (either piston or direct impingement) stuff tends to have far lower felt recoil than straight blowback, because there's usually much less mass moving backwards in the bolt carriage system. Delayed blowback also helps, because there are systems where the blowback is obviously delayed, thus the bolt doesn't need to be as massive.
Weight of the gun also can matter. A relatively heavy AR with DI gas system may feel awesome in terms of recoil, while a lightweight straight blowback gun with a massive bolt is gonna be punishing in terms of recoil

With that said, I do agree, there should be a "happy medium" with an AR platform that would work very well. Perhaps a subsonic .300BLK Pistol/Form 1 firearm setup with 10.5-12" heavy profile barrel, and the buffer system mentioned above?

 

[Member 34319]

If you were to go with a non delayed blowback. I'd recommend the B&T Series of 9mms. They have a hydraulic buffer inside that essentially absorbs the momentum of the bolt and never allows it to fully travel rearward.





They are also apparently making Glock magazine lowers.

 

[American123]

Not always. Operating system also plays into the felt recoil thing. Gas Operation (either piston or direct impingement) stuff tends to have far lower felt recoil than straight blowback, because there's usually much less mass moving backwards in the bolt carriage system. Delayed blowback also helps, because there are systems where the blowback is obviously delayed, thus the bolt doesn't need to be as massive.
Weight of the gun also can matter. A relatively heavy AR with DI gas system may feel awesome in terms of recoil, while a lightweight straight blowback gun with a massive bolt is gonna be punishing in terms of recoil

With that said, I do agree, there should be a "happy medium" with an AR platform that would work very well. Perhaps a subsonic .300BLK Pistol/Form 1 firearm setup with 10.5-12" heavy profile barrel, and the buffer system mentioned above?

Yep - I understand all of that fully, however if memory serves me correctly, OP has referred to woman who weighs 100 pounds is the intended user. This negates effectively all of the aforementioned detailes related to heavier guns and operating systems.

 

[American123]

That small of woman, I'd go PS90 or AR 5.7 depending on user preference.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Isn't the .30 carbine M1 about the same weight as a SBR'd AR for the most part? I may have the same issue with my fiancee; we'll see how she does with the 16" AR and the Hi Point 9mm, but she couldn't handle the JG Higgins Model 20's 12ga recoil.

That's why I was thinking subsonic .300blk, or something similar; if I remember correctly, the recoil impulse should not be as high as the high velocity 5.56 rounds, nor the .277 Wolverine or other Ar cartridges... but be more like the 30-30 carbine.

OP; is there a reason you or her, want a semi automatic carbine? I'm still thinking a .357 mag lever action would be very much a doable proposition for her

 

[The Heretic]

PS90 or AR57

More power than a .22 rimfire and being a centerfire it is more reliable. Ammo is about the same or less than a .22 magnum if you shop around and by on sale.

PS90 is expensive, but is a bullpup so in some ways more ergonomic, also has a matching handgun (Five Seven).

This is what I did for a family member who has muscle strength problems (due to health problems so muscle training won't help) and for the same root cause, has problems with recoil.

If you want to stick with the AR platform, then the AR57 will work.

Recoil is minimal with any 5.7x28 firearm and ammo capacity helps make up for the difference between it and the 5.56x45.

 

[Member 34319]

@CountryGent has your wife played with lever guns?

My wife is a petite woman as well and her absolute favorite is my 38/357 lever action carbine.

WTS OR - Rossi R92 Threaded .38/.357

 

[CountryGent]

The recoil factor isn't as big as the overall size and layout of the rifle. She has shot all kinds of rifles, including the AR a bit, and much more powerful hunting rifles, over the years. (Her running a few magazines of her grandfather's Savage 99 this summer was really neat.) But those were a few rounds or magazines here and there. It is putting through the thousands of rounds needed to become proficient with such a light carbine. Something 5.56㎜ may, in fact, be fine, I was just brainstorming something pistol caliber. Why? Now that I stop and think about it, I'd don't completely know. Maybe because the little vz61 fits her like a glove (though it is in .32 ACP) and the M1 Carbine is sort of an overgrown pistol caliber of sorts.

I think @Medic! may have a point that the M1 Carbine was the right combination of factors. Just the one we had didn't work. Ditto the Camp carbine that came in this week; need idea, crap execution.

P.S. The only levergun I recall her shooting in recent memory was the aforementioned Savage 99. We have a Winchester 94 too (in .30/30 WCF) that I pack around all the time, and shoot on occasion, but I don't remember if she ever shot it.
P.P.S. No thanks on anything Hi-Point.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I understand, I'm not recommending Hi Point for her. Too heavy, and recoil is a pain due to the heavy bolt it has.

I do seem to recall that some ARs will have higher felt recoil due to being overgassed, a common thing with the 16" barreled carbine gas length systems? A Mid-length 16" AR maybe better, with a different buffer system? might be able to tune the system to fit her better, maybe a different shoulder stock with a pad or something like that, instead of the M4 style?

 

[Captain O]

If you're going to the expense of an M1 Carbine, The James River Armory "RockOla" version is the "best of the breed". It is costly but hasn't been in a gun locker for 70 years. They're built right and are ready for a 20,000 "test run".

 

[Member 34319]

There is always the 9x18 VZ 61.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/vz-61-pistol-9x18-makarov-czechpoint

 

[Alexx1401]

[QUOTE="CountryGent, post: 2093962, member: 43816"

I think @Medic! may have a point that the M1 Carbine was the right combination of factors. Just the one we had didn't work. Ditto the Camp carbine that came in this week; need idea, crap execution.
.[/QUOTE]

If she liked the M-1 just not the way the AO would not work see if you can try one of the Ruger 9mm's. Neat little carbine, and 9mm ammo coming out of these is at .357 power and cheap to play with. They have been out long enough now that they should be getting easier to actually be able to see and fondle in a shop.

 

[CountryGent]

Interesting idea on the Ruger Carbine in 9㎜. We don't, presently, have any magazines for that platform, but they are a dime'a'dozen, and Ruger's after sale has (at least in my experience) been great.

 

[Member 34319]

Interesting idea on the Ruger Carbine in 9㎜. We don't, presently, have any magazines for that platform, but they are a dime'a'dozen, and Ruger's after sale has (at least in my experience) been great.

It's heavy. My wife had a hard time keeping it shouldered.

Have we overwhelmed you in PCCs yet? Lol!

 

[The Heretic]

The recoil factor isn't as big as the overall size and layout of the rifle.

In that case, maybe a bullpup is the answer as I find that the balance of a compact bullpup is much better than a conventional rifle, regardless of weight (I once had a bullpup M1A that weighed 12+ pounds with scope). Besides the PS90, there are various 5.56 bullpups, and there is at least one 9mm bullpup (Tavor).

The 5.7x28 is sort of a pistol caliber.

 

[Alexx1401]

Interesting idea on the Ruger Carbine in 9㎜. We don't, presently, have any magazines for that platform, but they are a dime'a'dozen, and Ruger's after sale has (at least in my experience) been great.

They come with the insert to use the Latest Ruger and another for Glock. Last I looked they were selling one other to use another Ruger mag. Mine I had a bunch of Glock mags so the Ruger mag and insert went to a junk box. This was one of the big selling points to these. That its so easy to use other mags. Just looked and I see one of my favorite local shops here is showing these in stock for $500. Sure a few places would have them now for a little less now. VERY fun little rifles.