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So, we've been experimenting with various very diminutive automatic carbines for my better half. She is only 5'1" tall and has hands like a child. She can run a 10/22 like no nobody's business, but it is a .22, and many other carbines are too large, produce too much recoil, or both, for effective use. My SBRed AR-15 was darn close, but the recoil, and the muzzle-blast (sans silenced) was a tad much. The SBRed vz61 worked good, but it is a .32 ACP, so barely more downrange thump than a 10/22.

What we've tried in recent memory:

  • Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbine. Looked good. Fit her well. Just right weight wise. But a complete and utter dumpster fire when it came to reliability. Even after two trips back to the factory, many different magazines, spring and parts changes, and using every factory loaded ammo currently on the market, it still wouldn't cycle. To get through a single magazine was a miracle.
  • Marlin Camp-45. Just came in. This thread lines it out. Perhaps still viable, but looking for alternatives.
So, guess what? To heck with it, I'm thinking of building or buying an AR for this application. The parameters would be:

  • Not much bigger of a package than a 10/22 or M1 Carbine.
  • Same weight class as the aforementioned.
  • In a pistol-caliber. Thinking 9㎜ Parabellum.
  • Readily available magazines.
  • Threaded, preferably ½ x 28, for use with a silencer.
  • Title I would be easier, but we can roll with a NFA-registered SBR.
Recommendations? Thanks all!
 
If she didn't like the recoil of the AR she won't like a pistol or rifle 9mm AR. They have worse recoil.

My recommendations would be:

A roller delayed 9mm like an HK or clone.

CMMG guard series in 9mm, also delayed blowback, lighter recoil. I have one and built 2 prior AR15 builds that don't compete. I have also had others compare and have noticed drastically different recoil tendencies.

CMMG guard series in 5.7mm. Take FN57 pistol mags. Looks as easy to shoot as the PS90, also more available than the PS90.

PS90, I've shot this, it's ridiculously under recoiled. Bonus for 50 rounds in a mag.

Kel-Tec CMR30. A slight upgrade from 22lr, 22mag, 30 round mags that are easy to get.

Oddball, Savage A17, also a slight upgrade from the 22lr, similer if not directly inline with the 10/22. No recoil really, 25 round mags available. Only set back is it is not threaded. Yet.
 
I forgot the Sig MPX. It's a gas operated 9mm. Lighter recoil.

Though it's stupid expensive and the mags are as well.
 
@Reno911. Interesting. Very interesting. The last one looks like a good candidate for F1 conversion. :D

P.S. Forgot about the MPX. I can roll with stupid expensive, provided they, well, work.
 
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@Reno911. Interesting. Very interesting. The last one looks like a good candidate for F1 conversion. :D

P.S. Forgot about the MPX. I can roll with stupid expensive, provided they, well, work.
I liked the MPX when I got to shoot it. Only suppressed so I can not speak for unsuppressed. It ate everything and wasn't too bad in the recoil department. It is tuneable too so you could turn down the gas more.

My only gripe was the wire stock. I'm not a fan, no cheek rest. They bite into my jaw, I've got bony cheeks. If it had a better stock option, like the Magpul Zhukov adapter, I'd say it's pretty much the best I've shot compared to my CMMG.
 
@Reno911. Interesting. Very interesting. The last one looks like a good candidate for F1 conversion. :D

P.S. Forgot about the MPX. I can roll with stupid expensive, provided they, well, work.
The HK or clones are just an easy backplate swap. So if you were going to form one one of these I'd say get one of the first two linked and save yourself having to cut and thread the barrel.
 
Don't forgot HKs and their clones do not have a last round bolt hold open, if that's important or not.

I'm not a fan of it not having one. Seems too outdated these days not to have one.
 
There are many choices for an AR15 chambered in 9mm. Mine is a COLT with a 16" barrel. Mags are available. The threaded barrel is already done and I have a collapsible stock. I haven't cut the barrel. But, it could be done with the correct paperwork. Same for the suppressor and F/A modifications, if you want them.

BUT.....
Truthfully, I don't shoot it all that much. I mean, say that the target is 100 yds away. So, I pull the trigger and I wait for the "faint thug" sound, when the bullet impacts the target. Really? So anyway, long ago I came to the conclusion that unless it's F/A, what's really the point? An AR15 in 5.56 x 45mm would probably be better for me.

OK, Ok, ok.....ammo costs and sound levels matter.

Then, if I were shooting at targets, say from 0-50 yards....why not just use a pistol?

Aloha, Mark
 
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Have you considered an M11 carbine in .380? The 9mm might be a bit more available.

Tombstone Tactical has Masterpiece Arms MPA9300SST with a 16" barrel selling for $534.99. It has a 30-round magazine that will "clean house" when called upon. Based on the old Ingram M11 they are reliable and would probably be more effective using either Lehigh "Extreme Defender 9mm loads or just as effective with 115-grain JHP or JSP.

Just a thought.
 
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Interesting idea on the MPA. On an unrelated research project (it was for our newly formed FFL) I engaged in correspondence with them. Seems like a solid outfit.

Parenthetically, what about the semi Uzis? Perhaps acquire, F1 paper, after approval cut the barrel, call it good. I think ... who knows. ;)
 
With a "lifetime warranty" the MPA could prove a solid choice. A red dot holographic sight would compliment the short-stroke 9mm carbine. Any 9mm would be a potent load, but a JHP or Lehigh (from Underwood Ammunition) would make this a formidable pistol caliber carbine. Made in the USA and reliable it seems that the MPA 9mm carbine a real bargain.
 
If she couldn't handle the AR recoil in 5.56, I highly doubt she'd be able to handle a blowback 9mm anything. Gas operated 9mm/pistol caliber, maybe better option here.
Limited experience with 9mm anything, except a Hi Point carbine an a .45acp carbine.... Let me tell you, both have higher felt recoil than the .223 Wylde 16" AR...why? massively heavy bolts and straight blowback designs. Sure they're quieter in terms of muzzle noise, but man, they are heavy, and recoil harder because of the massive bolt assemblies in them.

You'd think there'd be a market for a .22TCM Semiauto 12" barreled Firearm (pistol brace) or SBR....
Seems Modern Weapon Systems has had the Ion coming since 2015 but no update sine then....

Otherwise, looks like only in bolt actions or pistol...
 
Ruger PC9 maybe?
Or a great way to reduce recoil on a .223 a bit is the Vltor A5 buffer system. It's 1/2 way between a carbine and rifle. It will keep the length of pull Smurfable too... receiver extention is 7 position and 3/4" longer, and you can use a regular Carbine stock. I was running one with my Scilencerco Hybrid on a .224 Valkyrie Upper I was testing out a few days ago, and even that hot rod cartridge was super tame. No real felt recoil at all. With .223 and a good muzzle brake before my can was free from NFA jail it was super light..My daughter loved it. Now with my supressor, it's like shooting a .22.
If y'all were closer I'd let you try mine. D2238DC0-B4BD-46CD-9E95-FBECC10AB6D5.jpeg
 
Watch the CZ vs the rest. The first three are all delayed blowback or gas operated. The CZ being the only direct blowback in the video.

 

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