National Pistol Brace Litigation Post 01/31

[Yarome]

Most people who get into the NFA game do it with a little research before doing so.

You mean all those people asking questions in a pistol brace thread that suddenly found the NFA thrust upon them without any inclination of ever wanting to own an SBR in the first place?

Those, "research before doing so" people that are "so stupid" to be asking questions about what they can and cannot now do with their previously legally obtained and owned firearms??

Some of whom may just "now" be discovering this whole mess has been developing under their feet without any previous knowledge??

Jeeezz......

 

[wired]

You seem to have more faith in them failing than I have confidence in SCOTUS winning.

I have no faith whatsoever in SCOTUS so that may be true

 

[The Heretic]

using a brace as a stock to skirt it felt like breaking the law in spirit using a device

The "spirit" of the NFA is a bunch of fecal matter! If there is a loophole around it, all the better.

 

[Flopsweat]

Yeah they propose all kinds of stuff when they know they dont stand a chance of passing anything. Kind of like when Republicans posture on the budget and spending cap then cave when the room gets hot.

They used to propose all kinds of crazy shet in Washington State. The last 10 years, they've been passing it instead.

 

[MichaelH]

If DOJ/ATF gets smacked down by SCOTUS.. if. Congress could try to amend GCA68 definitions to include what they want to include, and to update and pointedly define AR15 and AK based and similar stripped receivers as all "Rifles" and this would entail the stopping and eventual removal of AR/AK and similar "pistols/others". This is a route I can easily see Congress trying, especially with an addition/amendment to GCA to include "assault weapons" and to insert "short barreled weapons without stocks that are larger than duty handguns" into NFA categories

Never gonna happen. At least not if the Senate keeps the filibuster /cloture rule. If asked, I can see the current Supreme Court—and the 2A friendly conservatives are relatively young— invalidating most parts of the NFA, using the reasoning from Bruen.

 

[billdeserthills]

This is me. I may mot like the NFA, especially bc the history suggests SBRs were left in by accident when handguns were taken out, but using a brace as a stock to skirt it felt like breaking the law in spirit using a device that I'd never use as intended as an imperfect substitute for a stock. I'm happy to have a SBR lower discounted by $200. After adding the stock and shooting it, if I was to ever get shorter barrelled PDW like an MP5/clone, a shorter barreled BREN etc., I'd def spring for the $200 tax stamp to add a folding stock.

I'm sure the ATF is likewise thrilled to have your registered firearm in their computer

 

[CamoDeafie]

Never gonna happen. At least not if the Senate keeps the filibuster /cloture rule. If asked, I can see the current Supreme Court—and the 2A friendly conservatives are relatively young— invalidating most parts of the NFA, using the reasoning from Bruen.

Never say never there will be a time when Congress is back to a D majority, and when SCOTUS gets back to an Institutionalist/Statist majority.

Edit. The 2 strongest 2A Justices; Thomas and Alito.. are also the two oldest. With Roberts consistently voting institutionalist other than Bruen; the Statist side only need to replace 1 Justice (Thomas is their target); and if they can flip one of the newer Justices (Kavanaugh or Barrett are likely) to the same patterns as Roberts; it might happen sooner that Bruen is modified/rejected.

 

[Diamondback]

One person in Reddit was suggesting that the amnesty stamps were contingent on approval of the rule/reg/etc.

I think once you get that stamp, you got it.

And once you're in, it's forevermore in the registry and a 'rifle' so you can never take that receiver back to 'pistol.'

No thanks, Herr Garland, go choke on a cat turd.

 

[The Heretic]

And once you're in, it's forevermore in the registry and a 'rifle' so you can never take that receiver back to 'pistol.'

Not sure about it always being a rifle from that point on - but the main issue is that it is in a registry and with the west coast having BGCs, no way to say it was sold privately (assuming you return it to non-NFA status) without selling it interstate (and therefore thru an FFL).

My main thing is to preserve the "off-books" status of pre-2015 purchased guns.

 

[CamoDeafie]

And once you're in, it's forevermore in the registry and a 'rifle' so you can never take that receiver back to 'pistol.'

No thanks, Herr Garland, go choke on a cat turd.

Not necessarily.. believe you can get it to be "inactive" back to pistol or 16"+ rifle depending on the original configuration.

Again, thanks to Thompson, Center Arms SCOTUS case, you can go pistol to rifle to pistol; if not NFA configuration... however, if registered as SBR NFA configuration, I don't see why it couldn't go back to a pistol after "removal" from SBR registry? Yes they'll always have the registered configuration on record; but... it's not like you started with a rifle configuration before SBRing it?

Edit. The original 4473 would probably be the main thing for the lower or firearm original configuration.

 

[Yarome]

If and when the SCOTUS rules on the case and if the court throws out the brace ban then and only then will the ATF authorize dealers to proceed with sales of braced pistols. Thats their M.O. . And yeah, they stay can be reversed at any time. Its not settled..

There goes that theory, hu?

One of many now in-stock and available for purchase. PSA Daily Deal.


Searching, several others popped up as well.

I concede there are going to be FFL's unwilling to accept them for transfer. Believing the risk too great and resuming sales/transfers to be premature, but as the other theory goes... the alphabet can not ban retailers from selling lawfully sellable firearms at their discretion.

That's not to say they can't cause an FFL grief for not obeying their whims, but that doesn't make it illegal or grant the alphabet any legal authority to ban for sale a specific type of lawful firearm.

It certainly doesn't help their case either to unlawfully persecute FFL's and drum up a bunch of abuse of administrative power lawsuits doing so when their "authority" is currently under scrutiny with several court cases pending. Unwise at least, but that's not to say that would stop them from doing it anyway, I guess.

 

[GWS]

There is no legal requirement to notify the ATF of

I was ttrying to talk about pistols that had been made into SBR's. Perhaps I blundered. Hardly anyone does rifles into SBR's any more

Well, don't I feel silly. Or should I feel special?
I just got my stamp to SBR a PS90.

 

[asiparks]

PSA's "it's not our problem" note at the bottom of the 11 1/2" Stealth AR:

"It is the customer's responsibility to be aware of all applicable laws and regulations regarding the purchase and ownership of uppers with a barrel length of less than 16". Federal NFA regulations are applicable to this item."

 

[Yarome]

PSA's "it's not our problem" note at the bottom of the 11 1/2" Stealth AR:

"It is the customer's responsibility to be aware of all applicable laws and regulations regarding the purchase and ownership of uppers with a barrel length of less than 16". Federal NFA regulations are applicable to this item."

If you notice... that disclaimer is on all assembled firearms of similar type with a barrel under 16". Including those equipped with pistol tubes... which don't require a stamp.

I haven't gone through a purchase for one and, obviously, can't comment if they are actually being sold, shipped and transferred without a stamp, but it appears there has been a shift in their product offerings.

It was announced they would resume builds with pistol braces and appears they have.


Side note: While supplies last... Aero is currently offering a free SBA3 or SBA4 brace with any purchase of an assembled lower with no stock.
Maybe that's old from when the amnesty was active and they never updated their website(?) I dunno. I did check the link and the offer there.

I just read a few posts from a redit someone sent me a link to. Folks discussing who started selling full braced pistols again... but I'm not interested and only read the first few posts.

 

[wired]

There goes that theory, hu?

One of many now in-stock and available for purchase. PSA Daily Deal.
View attachment 1762198

Searching, several others popped up as well.

I concede there are going to be FFL's unwilling to accept them for transfer. Believing the risk too great and resuming sales/transfers to be premature, but as the other theory goes... the alphabet can not ban retailers from selling lawfully sellable firearms at their discretion.

That's not to say they can't cause an FFL grief for not obeying their whims, but that doesn't make it illegal or grant the alphabet any legal authority to ban for sale a specific type of lawful firearm.

It certainly doesn't help their case either to unlawfully persecute FFL's and drum up a bunch of abuse of administrative power lawsuits doing so when their "authority" is currently under scrutiny with several court cases pending. Unwise at least, but that's not to say that would stop them from doing it anyway, I guess.

Yep. That is surprising

 

[GWS]

PSA's "it's not our problem" note at the bottom of the 11 1/2" Stealth AR:

"It is the customer's responsibility to be aware of all applicable laws and regulations regarding the purchase and ownership of uppers with a barrel length of less than 16". Federal NFA regulations are applicable to this item."

They should sell their magazines with that caveat.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[Yarome]

This was interesting. Q&A from comments from a previous video the did. IE., "Can I buy a braced pistol?", "What happens next?", "What happens to my braced pistol I SBR'ed under the amnesty?", "can they simply reissue a new rule saying the same thing but satisfying the APA?" (since the injunction is not based on 2A grounds)

 

[Flopsweat]

This was interesting. Q&A from comments from a previous video the did. IE., "Can I buy a braced pistol?", "What happens next?", "What happens to my braced pistol I SBR'ed under the amnesty?", "can they simply reissue a new rule saying the same thing but satisfying the APA?" (since the injunction is not based on 2A grounds)

He called it "Snorin' Desert Institute".

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Looked around at several websites and most all have ar pistols being sold with "no brace". Saw this one today being sold with a brace:

Smith & Wesson M&P 15 556 Nato AR Pistol 7.5" Barrel 13658 S&W Bag Included - GUNPRIME %

buy Smith & Wesson M&P 15 556 Nato AR Pistol 7.5" Barrel 13658 S&W Bag Included for sale best price

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