National Pistol Brace Litigation Post 01/31

[wired]

So we can or cannot put pistol braces back on?

I guess if you have to be that way sure

 

[ilikegunspdx]

So we can or cannot put pistol braces back on?

Imo it depends on who you ask:

ATF: no you can't

GOA, SAF, FPC: yes you can, if you are a member

Local LEO : who knows? My guess is they won't want to get into prosecuting it but just a guess

If it were me I would pay attention to the opinions of those who can prosecute you. My suggestion is to cover your butt for that by becoming a member of one or all of the three organizations above, or get a stamp. Now would the fact of this new lower court ruling influence ATF's decision to prosecute or not? Only atf could answer that I think. And unless I see guidance from ATF that says braces are now all of sudden legal (can you say when hell freezes over ha ha), I will assume they think their rule is still valid.

I don't like to swim upstream, better to plan a little, or spend a little $ to support those organizations that have a proven track record in overturning guns laws (GOA, FPC, SAF). To me it's a win-win. Being a member helps fight anti-gun laws and may give you more protection for braces. It gives some peace of mind for $30.

If it's stamped, they can't prosecute you. If you are a member of one of those groups at the very least you have ammo to fight it if they try to prosecute you. So I guess it comes down to a person's tolerance for risk. The risk does seem to be getting lower and lower as time goes on as these cases make their way through the courts. All just imo and I'm no lawyer.

 

[The Heretic]

My suggestion is to cover your butt for that by becoming a member of one or all of the three organizations above, or get a stamp.

One person in Reddit was suggesting that the amnesty stamps were contingent on approval of the rule/reg/etc.

I think once you get that stamp, you got it.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

One person in Reddit was suggesting that the amnesty stamps were contingent on approval of the rule/reg/etc.

I think once you get that stamp, you got it.

I agree. ATF wants to have the guns registered so there is no incentive for them to nullify them. But if scotus in the future said they are all null and void that would be different I guess. I hope they don't say that cuz I LOVE having the ability to have regular stock and front vertical grip. So I hope the rule gets thrown out and any approved stamps stay valid. That would be awesome.

 

[Yarome]

So we can or cannot put pistol braces back on?

Simple answer, yes. It is currently legal to do so.

LEO's can jam you up over anything at any time based on flawed understanding or misapplication of law, and like anything else... wrongful arrest and/or prosecution have remedies.

Risk factors in any decision in life is a personal choice.

 

[billdeserthills]

So we can or cannot put pistol braces back on?

I never took mine off!

 

[Yarome]

One person in Reddit was suggesting that the amnesty stamps were contingent on approval of the rule/reg/etc.

I think once you get that stamp, you got it.

I agree.

The one I hear the most often is not the contingency of the stamp, but of the amnesty fee waiver. Where actual stamp issuance is a separate matter on record extraneous of the rule itself, I believe it stands... no matter what.

Where the waiver simply exists as a provision within the rule though, if the rule is vacated in it's entirely, that could leave some to wonder if they might not get a surprise bill from the goobs asking for their $200. "Your fee waiver was invalidated".

In a rational world I really can't see them doing that since the provision was active at the time the transaction occurred. End of story! However..... some of the spiteful and vindictive crappola we've seen coming out of the white house... it wouldn't come as a great shock to me if they do. Or at least attempted to... sparking additional court actions to further drain the pockets of the pro-2A legal organizations.

There isn't much of a downside for them to at least attempt to pull that kinda crap on the 2A community.

 

[wired]

No one knows. Its as simple as that.

 

[Juniper9mm]

So it appears also those who went and received the amnesty stamps would still be required to file Form 5320.20 when traveling interstate, while say those that did not can move freely without notification.

 

[CamoDeafie]

So it appears also those who went and received the amnesty stamps would still be required to file Form 5320.20 when traveling interstate, while say those that did not can move freely without notification.

That's no different from those who have regular non-amnesty stamps?

 

[Juniper9mm]

That's no different from those who have regular non-amnesty stamps?

Well what I'm trying to say is that had I not taken the amnesty and just waited for the latest ruling than I wouldn't have to file notification.

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/braced-firearm-interest-poll.464794/

 

[Yarome]

One person in Reddit was suggesting that the amnesty stamps were contingent on approval of the rule/reg/etc.

I think once you get that stamp, you got it.

Come to think of it though.... and IIRC what I was reading... wasn't there some status deviation from the normal "pay to play" stamps?

I don't remember exactly but something to the effect.. on the pay to play... "here's your stamp", and the free stamps said something like, "here's your contingent stamp"(?)

The seemingly variant language may be nothing but maybe that's what's got people a little squirrely about the permeance of the amnesty stamps?


Just a thought.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Come to think of it though.... and IIRC what I was reading... wasn't there some status deviation from the normal "pay to play" stamps?

I don't remember exactly but something to the effect.. on the pay to play... "here's your stamp", and the free stamps said something like, "here's your contingent stamp"(?)

The seemingly variant language may be nothing but maybe that's what's got people a little squirrely about the permeance of the amnesty stamps?


Just a thought.

"APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS", "Conditions; Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F".

Edit. That's the potential screw up thing; depending on how the Court cases goes through SCOTUS; there's four ways it could go regarding the amnesty stamps

1. Registrants keep stamps, ATF/DOJ prohibited from collecting $200 each

2. Registrants keep stamps, ATF/DOJ allowed to collect $200 ea within time period if any

3. Registrants stamps nullified and voided, ATF not allowed to enforce at all, potentially SBR portion ruled unconstitutional and overturned

4. Registrants stamps nullified, ATF/DOJ set timeline to enforce plain SBR portion (new tax stamps to register and pay ) unless owners remove stocks

 

[asiparks]

Well what I'm trying to say is that had I not taken the amnesty and just waited for the latest ruling than I wouldn't have to file notification.

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/braced-firearm-interest-poll.464794/

it's only a "latest" ruling and not a final ruling.
If the brace rule in it's entirety gets tossed and a braced pistol is still a "pistol" not an SBR, you can remove any stocks/ VFGs etc, return it to it's original form and request its' removal from the registry. Then go back to using it the way we did a year ago.
If the case rolls around between hearings for the next couple of years, at least by having it on the registry you can slather it in stocks and VFGs & enjoy shooting it in public spaces and know you are covered.
If the ruling goes against us, you're good, pending, well, whatever the ATF wants to try next.
There wasn't really a downside to Amnesty from 1-ing. yes, it's "registered" but I'm already on the NFA list ...and I'm pretty sure the BATFE knows everything I've ever bought with a 4473 anyway....

 

[wired]

So it appears also those who went and received the amnesty stamps would still be required to file Form 5320.20 when traveling interstate, while say those that did not can move freely without notification.

If its a SBR then yes. If its a pistol that was turned into an SBR all the owners has to do is take the stock off for interstate travel.1320.20'
's are the easiest thing to do though. 3 minutes online good for a year if you fill it out right.

 

[wired]

it's only a "latest" ruling and not a final ruling.
If the brace rule in it's entirety gets tossed and a braced pistol is still a "pistol" not an SBR, you can remove any stocks/ VFGs etc, return it to it's original form and request its' removal from the registry. Then go back to using it the way we did a year ago.
If the case rolls around between hearings for the next couple of years, at least by having it on the registry you can slather it in stocks and VFGs & enjoy shooting it in public spaces and know you are covered.
If the ruling goes against us, you're good, pending, well, whatever the ATF wants to try next.
There wasn't really a downside to Amnesty from 1-ing. yes, it's "registered" but I'm already on the NFA list ...and I'm pretty sure the BATFE knows everything I've ever bought with a 4473 anyway....

I have my own examiner team and annex at the Indian Jones Warehouse. Im not cool though because I dont think theyre out to get me.

 

[wired]

Come to think of it though.... and IIRC what I was reading... wasn't there some status deviation from the normal "pay to play" stamps?

I don't remember exactly but something to the effect.. on the pay to play... "here's your stamp", and the free stamps said something like, "here's your contingent stamp"(?)

The seemingly variant language may be nothing but maybe that's what's got people a little squirrely about the permeance of the amnesty stamps?


Just a thought.

Theres no stamp.

 

[MichaelH]

I agree. ATF wants to have the guns registered so there is no incentive for them to nullify them. But if scotus in the future said they are all null and void that would be different I guess. I hope they don't say that cuz I LOVE having the ability to have regular stock and front vertical grip. So I hope the rule gets thrown out and any approved stamps stay valid. That would be awesome.

This is me. I may mot like the NFA, especially bc the history suggests SBRs were left in by accident when handguns were taken out, but using a brace as a stock to skirt it felt like breaking the law in spirit using a device that I'd never use as intended as an imperfect substitute for a stock. I'm happy to have a SBR lower discounted by $200. After adding the stock and shooting it, if I was to ever get shorter barrelled PDW like an MP5/clone, a shorter barreled BREN etc., I'd def spring for the $200 tax stamp to add a folding stock.

 

[Flopsweat]

If its a SBR then yes. If its a pistol that was turned into an SBR all the owners has to do is take the stock off for interstate travel.1320.20'
's are the easiest thing to do though. 3 minutes online good for a year if you fill it out right.

I don't think SBRs qualified for the free stamp. It had to be a pistol that was going to be converted.

 

[Yarome]

...and request its' removal from the registry.

It makes no difference in relation to how it may be used and sold going forward, but just a "to be aware"... a "removal" request does not actually "remove" anything from the registry. It simply changes the valid NFA stamp status to "inactive". (or however they annotate the database entry to that effect.)

The feebs are not at all in the habit of deleting any information they might obtain. Legally or otherwise.