Peterson vs Nosler brass, starting over...

[Koda]

So if I err on the side of caution and start at 10% reduction to clarify thats 10% from my current brass charge weight?
Also, whats the risk of starting too low? Although I dont suspect a full 10% is too low I could do a half grain ladder to start until I get closer to my current charge and slow down to .3g increments.

 

[DizzyJ]

So if I err on the side of caution and start at 10% reduction to clarify thats 10% from my current brass charge weight?
Also, whats the risk of starting too low? Although I dont suspect a full 10% is too low I could do a half grain ladder to start until I get closer to my current charge and slow down to .3g increments.

10% from where you're at.

I don't think a reduction that small is going to cause any problems. Did you say there was no published loading data available for the bullets you're using?

 

[Koda]

so I tried measuring volume with water weight. I cant say its exact cause I dont have a proper way to plug the primer hole but I used a teen tiny piece of tape I cut out and poked in there and no water leaked. Assuming both pieces of tape weigh close enough to the same.

Peterson brass: 70.3g
Nosler brass: 72.4g

Difference of 2.1g, 3% difference.

 

[Koda]

10% from where you're at.

I don't think a reduction that small is going to cause any problems. Did you say there was no published loading data available for the bullets you're using?

correct. No published data for Hammer bullets.

Hammer says to use the next lowest closest published data.

there is also user submitted data from the Hammer forum, but I only use that as a reference. Basically I use next lowest published data, compare with user data if someone used the same powder. If user data is close in starting I roll with that as a kind of confirmation, if not even close I ignore the user data.

Shared Load

Last Updated 04.10.2023 22-250, 22CM, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Wby RPM, 7mm-08, 7mmRemMag, 7mmRemMag, 280 Rem, 280 AI, 7 Sherman Short Mag, 7x57, 7x57AI,28 Nosler, 300 AAC Blackout, 308 Win, 300 WSM, 300 PRC, 300 WM, 35 Whelen, 338 RCM, 375 Ruger 375 H&H, 45-70

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[Local Loader]

so I tried measuring volume with water weight. I cant say its exact cause I dont have a proper way to plug the primer hole but I used a teen tiny piece of tape I cut out and poked in there and no water leaked. Assuming both pieces of tape weigh close enough to the same.

Peterson brass: 70.3g
Nosler brass: 72.4g

Difference of 2.1g, 3% difference.

Use wax to plug the hole. You can also use sand.

 

[Koda]

Use wax to plug the hole.

dont have any.

I think the piece of tape worked, Its so small it doesnt even weight 0.1g on my scale... I dont see any difference between the two pieces used making a measurable difference.

a 3% reduction in case volume means?

 

[Local Loader]

dont have any.

I think the piece of tape worked, Its so small it doesnt even weight 0.1g on my scale... I dont see any difference between the two pieces used making a measurable difference.

a 3% reduction in case volume means?

Some bees wax or a candle from dollar tree works.
Depending on the pressures and charge load you're using, 3% can make a world of difference.

 

[Koda]

Some bees wax or a candle from dollar tree works.
Depending on the pressures and charge load you're using, 3% can make a world of difference.

I was hoping a 3% case reduction = 3% powder reduction.
But im no scientist... I think the safest thing to do is Dizzys advice and start 10% lower and work up a pressure ladder.

 

[Local Loader]

I was hoping a 3% case reduction = 3% powder reduction.
But im no scientist... I think the safest thing to do is Dizzys advice and start 10% lower and work up a pressure ladder.

Like I said, do what makes you feel comfortable.

 

[P7M13]

It's possible that that will cause a pressure drop and/or fps drop, but as always, results may vary.

dont have any.

I think the piece of tape worked, Its so small it doesnt even weight 0.1g on my scale... I dont see any difference between the two pieces used making a measurable difference.

a 3% reduction in case volume means?

3% volume reduction with the same powder charge means higher pressures, but the pressure change with volume is exponential, not linear.
With rifle cartridges, I've never followed the 10% rule of thumb. Like @Dillon1000 suggests, every rifle is different. Hence, treat it like any new load. Start at the bottom of the published tables and work up.

 

[cameron25]

I think you're gonna like the peterson brass, it will handle more pressure and as you can see already its more consistent. I like it as much as lapua and ADG so far in my 300 prc

 

[Koda]

I think you're gonna like the peterson brass, it will handle more pressure and as you can see already its more consistent. I like it as much as lapua and ADG so far in my 300 prc

Its also dimensionally more consistent. The Nosler length was all over with most cases at the bottom min length, and their neck rims werent square to the case.

I ran some Peterson brass thru my expander only and loaded up an initial pressure ladder. Im going to see if I can sneak out to the range today or tomorrow....

 

[Koda]

I think you're gonna like the peterson brass, it will handle more pressure

Ive read this and will be curious to see how that offsets the reduced case volume...

 

[cameron25]

Its also dimensionally more consistent. The Nosler length was all over with most cases at the bottom min length, and their neck rims werent square to the case.

I ran some Peterson brass thru my expander only and loaded up an initial pressure ladder. Im going to see if I can sneak out to the range today or tomorrow....
View attachment 1409554

Yeah ive not heard great things about the nosler brass so I'm not surprised. Do you like those absolutes or are you just trying them now? I tried them in my 6.5 and 300 prc with powders hammer recommended and just didn't see the crazy increase in speed with them like I hoped so I abandoned them

 

[Koda]

Yeah ive not heard great things about the nosler brass so I'm not surprised. Do you like those absolutes or are you just trying them now? I tried them in my 6.5 and 300 prc with powders hammer recommended and just didn't see the crazy increase in speed with them like I hoped so I abandoned them

So far Im liking the Hammers because being fairly new to reloading they have been the easiest to develop a load with. You just work up a pressure ladder and find your fastest safe velocity and zero and your done. With my Nosler brass im getting 3/4" MOA (my best group was .450") in my .280AI.

As for these Absolutes im also not getting the additional velocity they advertise (but it is a respectably hot load comparably) but Hammer has made suggestions for me to try. I gained about 100fps seating further out, and they also recomment crimping might help. Hammer has been very responsive and helpful both directly (email or phone) and on their own forum.
I should be able to safely hit at least 3200fps with this 140g Absolute, i did with the Nosler brass anyways.

I think the main reason Hammer ("they") gets more velocities is they have virtually an unmimited supply of different powders, primers to try, where ive been severely limited to supply chain issues. Im lucky to have a brick of LRP. I hear RL23 powder really delivers additional velocity but thats stil unobtainium....

 

[cameron25]

So far Im liking the Hammers because being fairly new to reloading they have been the easiest to develop a load with. You just work up a pressure ladder and find your fastest safe velocity and zero and your done. With my Nosler brass im getting 3/4" MOA (my best group was .450") in my .280AI.

As for these Absolutes im also not getting the additional velocity they advertise (but it is a respectably hot load comparably) but Hammer has made suggestions for me to try. I gained about 100fps seating further out, and they also recomment crimping might help. Hammer has been very responsive and helpful both directly (email or phone) and on their own forum.
I should be able to safely hit at least 3200fps with this 140g Absolute, i did with the Nosler brass anyways.

I think the main reason Hammer ("they") gets more velocities is they have virtually an unmimited supply of different powders, primers to try, where ive been severely limited to supply chain issues. Im lucky to have a brick of LRP. I hear RL23 powder really delivers additional velocity but thats stil unobtainium....

Yes i crimped all the hammer bullets I've tried too and it did seem to tighten up the SD's and add a bit of speed. Just got tired of crimping and their BC being lower than they claim. I switched to cutting edge lazers, they're even easier to load, better BC and supposedly they will expand at much lower velocity than the hammers. I got similar speeds and accuracy with them tho, both were about sub moa once i settled on a load. Gonna try n570 now cause the rl26 load I had is a bit hot in warm weather or with a suppressor

 

[Koda]

Yes i crimped all the hammer bullets I've tried too and it did seem to tighten up the SD's and add a bit of speed. Just got tired of crimping and their BC being lower than they claim. I switched to cutting edge lazers, they're even easier to load, better BC and supposedly they will expand at much lower velocity than the hammers. I got similar speeds and accuracy with them tho, both were about sub moa once i settled on a load. Gonna try n570 now cause the rl26 load I had is a bit hot in warm weather or with a suppressor

View attachment 1409635

those Cutting Edge bullets are on my radar. I just simply started with Hammers cause I read more positive reviews from them from hunters. Ive heard their BCs are questionable, I think the owner addressed that in a hunting forum thread somewhere they are looking into investing in a better way to measure their BCs.
I just got home from the range and my first Peterson pressure ladder went very well. I need to sit down and look over my notes and brass but I exceeded my Nosler recipe's velocity just before my first hint of pressure. I did not need to start as low as -10%.....

 

[cameron25]

those Cutting Edge bullets are on my radar. I just simply started with Hammers cause I read more positive reviews from them from hunters. Ive heard their BCs are questionable, I think the owner addressed that in a hunting forum thread somewhere they are looking into investing in a better way to measure their BCs.
I just got home from the range and my first Peterson pressure ladder went very well. I need to sit down and look over my notes and brass but I exceeded my Nosler recipe's velocity just before my first hint of pressure. I did not need to start as low as -10%.....

Nice. Welp n570 was a total bust for this bullet, same charge as rl26 gave 300 fps less speed imma just back off my rl26 load and try again tomorrow

Far as i know, Brian litz from applied ballistics tested hammer bullets and every single one of their listed BC's was incorrect apparently. Then Steve from hammer tried saying Brian doesn't know what he's doing people love hammers tho that's why I tried them too. But guys on rokslide did say at distance the BC is off and they had to recalculate it with confirmed drops

 

[Koda]

Far as i know, Brian litz from applied ballistics tested hammer bullets and every single one of their listed BC's was incorrect apparently. Then Steve from hammer tried saying Brian doesn't know what he's doing people love hammers tho that's why I tried them too. But guys on rokslide did say at distance the BC is off and they had to recalculate it with confirmed drops

I know that BC is a metric of air resistance, a bigger number is better. Does BC affect precision or just drops? Ive never got the advertised ballistics or velocity from any brand of ammo or bullet. Hammers are precise enough, if someone is getting 1moa or better how does a lower BC hold them back?

 

[Koda]

Heres my pressure ladder with Peterson brass, and an interesting observation regarding the 3% case volume difference.
Peterson, COAL 3.345", H4350: charge/velocity
54/2916
55/3047
55.5/3038
56/3102
56.3/3122
56.6/3133
56.9/3147
57.2/3162
57.5/3192
57.8/3204
58.1/3212
58.4/3217 faint ejector mark
58.7/3262

For reference
Nosler, COAL 3.345", H4350....
60.6g/3221 sticky extraction


Observation, the difference between charge weights at the first hint of pressure between the two cases is 3.7%. Velocity is virtually the same.