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Oregon anti-gunners want more!

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Oregon anti-gunners want more; NY Gov. Cuomo to help Brady camp

    Oregon Ceasefire has released its extremist anti-gun wish list that includes proposals for one-gun-a-month restrictions, a ban on co-called “military style rifles,” microstamping, new taxes on the sale of firearms and ammunition, and more, the Portland Oregonian reported yesterday.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/oregon-anti-gunners-want-more-ny-gov-cuomo-to-help-brady-camp


    Once they get the taste of blood.....:mad:
     
  2. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    That was one of the problems of the recall. We have a huge amount of clout based on the fear that we can deliver on Election Day. When we show that we can't it feeds their confidence.

    I agree that the recall was right but not making the numbers hurt us.
     
    Koda likes this.
  3. Ralgha

    Ralgha Portland Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    They didn't even count the signatures! I bet we did have the numbers.
     
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  4. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'm just wondering who is rallying all the pro-gun folks in Oregon to fight this? I've had one email from OFF in the last month and a half. And I haven't received anything from the NRA.

    Is anyone out there working to fight for us in Salem? Is Kevin even actively fighting them down there? If there is someone here doing it, they need to make themselves known, quickly. Otherwise I don't see any way to stop what will happen in the next session - we're screwed.
     
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  5. David Bowman

    David Bowman Beaverton OR Archer Defense Concepts

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    I would invite them to get down with their bad selves. Try it. See if it works out for you.

    I will still have my guns when they are all done.
     
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  6. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler wa Well-Known Member

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    I know this brought some ire from some on the forum back when the I-594 debate was going on here in WA, but, much like we saw here in WA on that fight, the NRA was nowhere to be seen. Alan Gottlieb's group had more of a presence from what I could see.

    Like many on this forum, I pay membership dues to the NRA and send additional money their way when I can (same for WA Gun Rights group). While I realize they have finite resources, the WA and OR anti gun efforts seem like ground zero areas they should be making heavy investment in... but we're not seeing that. It could be that they run the numbers on demographics and how much (or little) the members in these states engage, both in donation and time... coming to the conclusion that lots of internet tough talk won't pay the bills or win the day.

    If the anti-gunners are being bank rolled by the likes of Bloomberg, Gates, Hanauer, etc., are we simply being outspent? I find it hard to believe the NRA cannot find equivalent pro 2AR sugar daddy's who are willing to fund the fight. Does anyone know of any such folks?

    Then there is the single greatest loss to our fight (IMO) which had nothing to do with money and everything to do with persona -- Charlton Heston. A well respected public figure that could sway the publics opinion on gun rights.

    Did see this info and it suggests very little donations from individuals... we all should try and change that... just saying.

    https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000082

    My hats off and thank you to the individual donors who made this list... even a Microsoft Engineer! Now this is what putting your money where your mouth is looks like.

    http://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015
  7. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe there was much NRA interest in fighting UBC such as I-594 and OR-941. In fact, they don't seem too interested in fighting registration and FOID or similar laws. I would hope that they come to our aid when it comes to assault rifle, and standard capacity magazine bans. I'm also hoping that the fight against taxes will also be in their battle plan.

    We need to keep contributing to OFF and SAF, and doing it as much as we can afford.

    Keep in mind that the drooling antis also like to sneak the emergency clause into legislation so that the people of the state have no recourse. I also suspect that the tax break for safes will also come up, but with a caveat that the tax break will depend on giving the state a safe inventory.

    We can also expect the see a new reciprocity bill introduced. As we saw earlier this year, it'll be a gut and stuff effort. I'm sure we'll also see the "Texas Floyd" provisions in any CHL legislation.
     
  8. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler wa Well-Known Member

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    Now that sounds Orwellian. Should that become reality, I wonder what other aspect of Oregonians private lives will come into play? Better rally the bystanders who have been sitting on the fence bubbleguming but not taking action (like voting). That lack of participation is very likely the reason the states politics are where they are now.
     
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  9. 41Slinger

    41Slinger Harrisburg Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I wonder if part of the non support by the NRA and others was due to the fact that they realize that the liberal voting block, (basically three areas) in Oregon is controlling the entire state and after weighing the odds of winning against, (emergency clause) these odds, they decided to spend their money else where. Kind of a quitters mentality but financially practical. Sucks either way.
     
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  10. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    The NRA supported Harry Reid. They want Democrat members. I am still a member but no longer give other donations.
     
  11. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    It seems we are on our own with our unread, (hopefully counted) letters and phone calls of opposition, rallies and attempts to get fellow pro 2ndA types to get off their duff and do the same. It's amazing how many refuse to get involved and actually get annoyed if you suggest they should vote even!

    We all know though that even if we could magically wake up all the Democrat, Republican and Independent Voters who are pro-gun and get them to write a protest letter, this Session we are as you say screwed.

    After the successful Election of a known corrupt Governor in order to seat KB in office and the failed recalls, the anti-gun Progs feel unstoppable! They are going to ram more than a few "Emergency" anti-gun Bills down our throats alright.

    We may be safe for now from the more far fetched crap like micro stamping or smart guns but a lock up law and mag limit are inevitable I'm afraid. Perhaps even a military style gun ban!

    In addition to contributing all you can to pro-gun orgs the only other thing we can do, maybe the best thing we can do is keep informing friends family and co workers and get as many new people into shooting sports as possible.
     
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  12. Kevin Starrett

    Kevin Starrett Canby Member

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    Is anyone out there working to fight for us in Salem? Is Kevin even actively fighting them down there? If there is someone here doing it, they need to make themselves known, quickly. Otherwise I don't see any way to stop what will happen in the next session - we're screwed.[/QUOTE]


    This is a perplexing quote. What does this mean "fighting them down there?" With limited exceptions there is no one "down there." The legislature is not in session. Until February there is no public action in Salem. There are no bills to support or oppose. What exactly do you think we should be doing in Salem in an empty building? We could do what other groups do, send out a constant barrage of fund raising emails about nothing except how if you don't "chip in" $5.00 Kevin is going to jail, but we like to think you are smarter than that. The last session ended. We went right to work on the recall. That is behind us now. The next fights don't start until the new year. If you want to get a string of mail about invented issues there are plenty of people who will send them. But everyone would be better served getting ready for whatever is coming in February and NO ONE knows what that will be. The resistance has begun. Roseburg to Coos County. If you are itching for action before February then by all means find a few strong friends and do what Rob Taylor did. Get a ballot measure up in your county.
     
  13. Kevin Starrett

    Kevin Starrett Canby Member

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    Please see our website. Since Sept 5 we have issued 7 substantive alerts.

    http://www.oregonfirearms.org/category/off-alerts
     
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  14. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    This is a perplexing quote. What does this mean "fighting them down there?" With limited exceptions there is no one "down there." The legislature is not in session. Until February there is no public action in Salem. There are no bills to support or oppose. What exactly do you think we should be doing in Salem in an empty building? We could do what other groups do, send out a constant barrage of fund raising emails about nothing except how if you don't "chip in" $5.00 Kevin is going to jail, but we like to think you are smarter than that. The last session ended. We went right to work on the recall. That is behind us now. The next fights don't start until the new year. If you want to get a string of mail about invented issues there are plenty of people who will send them. But everyone would be better served getting ready for whatever is coming in February and NO ONE knows what that will be. The resistance has begun. Roseburg to Coos County. If you are itching for action before February then by all means find a few strong friends and do what Rob Taylor did. Get a ballot measure up in your county.[/QUOTE]
    Hi Kevin,
    Thanks you for all you do BTW!
    One thing I've wondered about is the effectiveness/cost of Pro2ndA TV ads during local News. The production value would be minimal IMO. I've seen some pretty low tech stuff on youtube that is chillingly to the point.

    The ads could be run also during daytime game shows, soaps etc. I'm guessing that air time slot is cheaper as I see local businesses run ads on daytime TV.

    Donation requests from OFF targeted for this kind of project would be welcome to many of us who can afford it I'm thinking.

    Letters and calls to Reps I'll continue to do, but an Ad with the Reps contact info who are taking away our rights would be so much better.

    I'm sure it's not as simple as it seems, have you looked into it?
     
  15. coyote223

    coyote223 NW Oregon Stamp Collector,,,

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    Give them an inch, they will take a mile. Just like the kommiefirnia demokkkRats, they will never be satisfied until the 2nd is gone,,,




    The last couple gun rallies have had pathetic turnouts. Everyone should get off their arses and quit expecting others to fight for you. You see how many idiots got together to celebrate the world series win? Priorities,,,

    We should all be in front of the marble nut house with torches and pitchforks,,,
     
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  16. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well I can't answer for everyone else, but I was at the rally at the capitol in Salem back in February.

    And attacking others here is part of the reason we don't get better turnout at those events.

    My question regarding OFF is legitimate. I don't send money to them so I can go out and do the fighting. Don't get me wrong, I do get involved, but at some level, we need someone that can get in and put pressure on the folks that work in Salem. That's what we send him money for. I don't think it's asking too much to ask what's planned for the next session - and I think we all know that some big attacks are coming. They still have the majority, so who is going to stop them?

    Gun owners in Oregon are hardly what I would call unified in purpose. I'm simply wondering who or what can actually bring them all together, to work together to fight this. From what I can see, OFF is our best option, I just don't know what the plan is.
     
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  17. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    This is a perplexing quote. What does this mean "fighting them down there?" With limited exceptions there is no one "down there." The legislature is not in session. Until February there is no public action in Salem. There are no bills to support or oppose. What exactly do you think we should be doing in Salem in an empty building? We could do what other groups do, send out a constant barrage of fund raising emails about nothing except how if you don't "chip in" $5.00 Kevin is going to jail, but we like to think you are smarter than that. The last session ended. We went right to work on the recall. That is behind us now. The next fights don't start until the new year. If you want to get a string of mail about invented issues there are plenty of people who will send them. But everyone would be better served getting ready for whatever is coming in February and NO ONE knows what that will be. The resistance has begun. Roseburg to Coos County. If you are itching for action before February then by all means find a few strong friends and do what Rob Taylor did. Get a ballot measure up in your county.[/QUOTE]

    Kevin,

    I'm glad to see you here on NWFA, arguably the largest gun forum in Oregon and the Pacific NW.

    Let me start by saying that 'fighting them down there' is simply a generic term for dealing with our representatives and senators. They may not currently be in session, but I think we're all well aware that these folks haven't stopped working behind the scenes to plan their legislative moves for the short 2016 session. Of course they're not in session right now, but that doesn't mean our elected officials are not thinking ahead and planning. That seems a fair assessment, doesn't it?

    I realize there are no bills present yet. Does that have to mean that the fight can't start? Just because there is no proposed legislation made available, does that mean that we can't assume something is coming? Personally, I think waiting until the last minute to address these issues after they're already on the docket is too late. Can you honestly tell me there aren't deals being worked behind the scenes even right now? That folks aren't having dinners, phone calls and emails to discuss the strategy for 2016?

    Is the fight really not happening now? Well, the Bloomberg funded Oregon Alliance for Gun Safety certainly doesn't think the fight is on hold right now. In July of this year, the Alliance held a mailing campaign known as "Not One More", claiming that 16,000 postcards were mailed to legislators. Clearly the legislators are able to receive these messages even though they're not in session, otherwise I would think the whole campaign would be a waste of time. Do they know something we don't know? They certainly see value in priming the anti-gun pump in advance of the next legislative session.

    I don't know if you were being sarcastic regarding the emails about you going to jail or "invented" issues, but that's how it read to me. And that certainly isn't the type of stuff I'm looking for. I know you folks worked on the recall, and I'm disappointed that it didn't go through. But I'm on this forum daily and seeing many folks asking the same question I did - who is fighting for us? What are they currently doing? I certainly don't believe we have to have legislation on the table before something could be done. If ideas are needed, how about finding a way to rally ALL Oregon gun owners together to fight a common cause? How about finding a way to get hunters that seem to be oblivious to what's going on in Salem (except when the fight is over lead ammo bans), to get involved. How about campaigns to start peppering the reps and senators NOW rather than after they've all made up their minds. I know I'm not the one to do those things - I have neither the time nor the connections to do them, that's why I put my support behind those that can do those things.

    We know something is coming. They have a majority. They know, due to the recalls, that they may lose seats in November 2016. They know that this session will be their best chance to make a push for the most restrictive gun control laws they can.

    I'm sorry if my concern over what's coming comes across as a personal attack, that's actually not what my prior post was intended. It was intended to ask "what's coming?", "what should we expect?", and "what should we be prepared to do?". The anti-gun folks are keeping the messages flowing via social media campaigns, etc. They also have the benefit of a media engine that supports their cause, which means getting the message out to the pro-gun folks is even more difficult.

    I support OFF, I joined because so many folks here on NWFA said it is our best bet in Oregon to fight the anti-gun folks. I also support the NRA, but I don't expect them to do much of anything in Oregon. I am worried. Very worried. We are going to get hit hard this next session. If you have information that can assuage that fear, then please, share it with us. I just would really like to know what the game plan will be for 2016. We got our backsides handed to us in 2015 with SB941. All the letters, emails, phone calls and public testimony did NOTHING to stop them, and I alone wrote more than I can count. I even went to meet my legislators in person at the Capitol. We couldn't stop them in 2015, so what is the plan to stop them in 2016? They will roll over us again in 2016. So, what can we do? Will we just plan a repeat of the 2015 fight?
     
  18. Kevin Starrett

    Kevin Starrett Canby Member

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    I support OFF, I joined because so many folks here on NWFA said it is our best bet in Oregon to fight the anti-gun folks. I also support the NRA, but I don't expect them to do much of anything in Oregon. I am worried. Very worried. We are going to get hit hard this next session. If you have information that can assuage that fear, then please, share it with us. I just would really like to know what the game plan will be for 2016. We got our backsides handed to us in 2015 with SB941. All the letters, emails, phone calls and public testimony did NOTHING to stop them, and I alone wrote more than I can count. I even went to meet my legislators in person at the Capitol. We couldn't stop them in 2015, so what is the plan to stop them in 2016? They will roll over us again in 2016. So, what can we do? Will we just plan a repeat of the 2015 fight?[/QUOTE]

    First I think it should be noted that in spite of the losses we faced in 2015, which were serious, there were lots of bills we stopped. Second, it is true that the Dems pushed through legislation in spite of the massive input by voters in all mediums. The fact remains that the Republicans lost enough seats to give the Dems a big enough majority to do whatever they want to do, which is whatever Bloomberg pays them to do.

    It's also true that the state elected a governor who they KNEW was a crook. That is a problem. So the issue then becomes "well we couldn't stop them in 2015, so what do we do?" Frankly, there are ways of effecting political change. There is talk of pitchforks and armed retaliation. I have no argument with that. But it's a bit of problem to, at the same time say we need to storm the gates while we also complain that people don't show up at rallies. Until someone wants to start an armed insurrection, we have to stop ignoring our responsibilities to the process. Rob Taylor changed Coos County law. Local people can do amazing things in the right place and time. But until you want to start a shooting war, the battles are local and not sexy.

    Last night I was at the meeting of a small town school board. They were debating a ban on guns for their teachers and other employees. I don't live there. But I showed up and we may have derailed it for now. It's fine to ask what OFF is doing to fix it all. But here we had a school board making important decisions. How many gun owners run for school board? Many of these seats are unopposed. This stuff is not sexy. It's work. The reality is "OFF" does NOTHING without the hard work of members and people on the ground locally. I have no problem being challenged about what we do. We are accountable. But you need to ask yourself what did YOU do? And for those who think they can't do anything, I give you Rob Taylor.
     
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  19. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'm glad to hear you were at that meeting. I want to make it clear that my question about what OFF is doing was never meant to imply that you're doing nothing. My question was for further clarification about what was being done - because I simply don't know. We don't get regular updates, other than the alerts - and those seem to primarily focus on events that have happened, not necessarily identifying work that's being done.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that the opposition seems to be doing a good job of being visible, being in the public eye, drumming up support, rallying the troops. Meanwhile, pro-gun folks in Oregon are disjointed, arguing with each other over whether we should start a second revolution/civil war, whether we should 'not comply' with laws we disagree with, or whether we should hold another rally.

    You ask what I've done. Well, I've been writing letters and emails and making calls to my legislators on both a state and national level for years - on a variety of topics, including gun control. I have attended meetings in my local area, including county commission meetings. I have attended a rally in Salem, and, on a separate trip, met with some legislators in person. I make it a point to talk to every single gun owner I meet and try to both inform them about what is going on (it's amazing how few gun owners are aware of this) and to get them involved, and at the very least, to vote. I don't do this for a living, so I give the time I can to help try and protect these rights.

    All I'm asking for is more information on what's being done and what the plan is for the coming session. It feels like we're being reactive rather than proactive. Maybe more communication would help dismiss those concerns. Until you mentioned it tonight, I wouldn't have known you were attending school board meetings. That's good to know. That's the kind of information that will help the rest of us to be aware of what's happening. For those of us that can't put a full time effort into this, we rely on others to get us the news about what's being done and what we may need to get involved in ourselves. I'd love to see something like a weekly update email from OFF highlighting any key points of what's being done, such as those school board meetings. Beyond that, I rely on this forum to get up to date information on various events going on around the state.

    Do what you will with my comments, but don't take them personally. I'm concerned and I want to know if there is anyone that can mobilize a much larger group of pro-gun folks in Oregon leading in to 2016. I don't know how to do that. I don't have the resources, I'm hoping someone, perhaps you, have both the answers and the resources to do that. If you're short on those items, then let us know so we can try and provide some additional assistance.
     
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  20. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    Kevin why you addressed some of the issues and I for one am grateful, you said what do others do? And that is legitimate to ask; however most people like myself and others do not get funding to make changes that OFF gets, and that funding is from the public and I am betting from many that cant get out and beat the pavement so they ask you or OFF to represent their concerns I know I do when it comes to representation. True there are many whom should get up and get involved, but then as I mentioned are citizens not paying OFF to represent them in Salem and elsewhere? I have been involved decades in Oregon every year and donate to OFF and the NRA too. I am unsure why its not being seen what the problem is? Of course after the fact we can say what it was but why was that not addressed prior rather then being talked about afterwords. Having lived in Oregon along time it was clear to me a long time coming I could see it as clear as the sun for some time, yet the last three years the defense strategy was the same? Why? I am asking my self did not OFF, and the NRA see that Bloomberg vowed early in 2013 to attack the west coast it was no secret and he did just that and now everone acts surprised? Did not people listen to the antis move and have large discussion as they gained grounds like "never" before in 2014 yet we are surprised we got our backsides handed to us in 2015? I can only imagine the work done by a lobby, but when I read the above it sounded like it came from a politician and didn't really spell out a plan or idea to combat it. Are you saying people should not invest in OFF and just go at it alone cause all is lost? Or what is being said that we can look to and believe in because the same ole same ole is getting us buried. Thats just my opinion and what do I know. :).

    Just and a FYI Antis are game changers by changing the public's mind of all people, it seems in my opinion all citizens not just gun owners need to hear the No Compromise and why, not just gun owners. Where I live we are very conservative yet many firearms owners and hunters I know didnt know about SB941 and have never heard of OFF these are home grown Oregonians. Over summer at BBQ's I had to explain to 45 family members what SB941 was and what OFF was, and they all live here the message is not getting out !
    I just assumed they knew and ergo is the problem. Just my thoughts best of luck to all of us .

    ( edit I am going to add as well like Etrain said, please did do not take personal these are concerns not attacks)
     
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