On the inflation front ...

[arakboss]

Regardless of whether we can refine it here or not, the oil prices are set on global markets. We would have to dump a lot of oil on the market to make even a small difference in price.

We had record oil production in 2023 and oil prices haven't moved that much. The dream that fuel prices are going to be cut in half in one year is just a dream.

Even if the fuel prices were cut in half for 2026 how much would that reduce rents. The answer is likely zero. Rents will continue to rise until they can no longer find people who will rent the units.

 

[Alexx1401]

I do think government housing assistance creates problems for the working poor who don't qualify or don't want government assistance. Imagine a world where housing assistance was eliminated. All those section 8 type freeloaders would be on the street and that would free up lots of rental units. That would likely cause rental prices to go down. Probably not going to happen though.

If you want to see something really royally hosed let the gov get involved in it. Education is a prime example. Start getting subsidies for something and watch the price go up since gov is paying for it. Then when it becomes a mess the same people who made the mess run for office on "fixing it". Rinse, repeat.

 

[arakboss]

If you want to see something really royally hosed let the gov get involved in it. Education is a prime example. Start getting subsidies for something and watch the price go up since gov is paying for it. Then when it becomes a mess the same people who made the mess run for office on "fixing it". Rinse, repeat.

Exactly.

 

[Alexx1401]

We had record oil production in 2023 and oil prices haven't moved that much. The dream that fuel prices are going to be cut in half in one year is just a dream.

Even if the fuel prices were cut in half for 2026 how much would that reduce rents. The answer is likely zero. Rents will continue to rise until they can no longer find people who will rent the units.

Supply meet demand

 

[Loc]

Regardless of whether we can refine it here or not, the oil prices are set on global markets. We would have to dump a lot of oil on the market to make even a small difference in price.

Exactly my point. We do currently extract more oil per day than any other country, though. It's being offset by OPEC reductions, however. I think that may be why Trump is wanting to drill even more, to get to the OPEC reduction pain point.

 

[arakboss]

Supply meet demand

The localized problem with that, is we can't outbuild the demand. People will come from other States to take up the new supply. That will leave us in the same boat and with more traffic.

 

[Alexx1401]

The localized problem with that, is we can't outbuild the demand. People will come from other States to take up the new supply. That will leave us in the same boat and with more traffic.

You are missing what I am saying. Are there empty homes and apartments all over? No? Why not? How many of those who have "occupants" are those who work paying for? There is where your problem comes from. If you build 100 new units a week and move in 120 families you give them to free? No price will not come down. Stop paying for those who do not want to work and allow those who will not pay to be booted out? Now watch price.
As I said earlier when we were going to the store. Several places we pass by that sold coffee had HUGE lines of cars waiting to get hosed on the price of a cup of coffee. There is not nearly enough pain being felt. WA just said give us more a couple weeks ago.
You can't "fix" a situation if the majority of the people think there is no problem.

 

[arakboss]

Many large farmers figured this housing problem out long ago. If you want cheaper labor you will need to provide affordable housing for them.

 

[arakboss]

You are missing what I am saying. Are there empty homes and apartments all over? No? Why not? How many of those who have "occupants" are those who work paying for? There is where your problem comes from. If you build 100 new units a week and move in 120 families you give them to free? No price will not come down. Stop paying for those who do not want to work and allow those who will not pay to be booted out? Now watch price.
As I said earlier when we were going to the store. Several places we pass by that sold coffee had HUGE lines of cars waiting to get hosed on the price of a cup of coffee. There is not nearly enough pain being felt. WA just said give us more a couple weeks ago.
You can't "fix" a situation if the majority of the people think there is no problem.

I agree we should not be providing housing to freeloaders.

 

[Alexx1401]

Many large farmers figured this housing problem out long ago. If you want cheaper labor you will need to provide affordable housing for them.

Again supply meet demand. A handful of people who used to work with me have taken jobs in Seattle. They have tried to get me to go. Place is paying a LOT more for the same work and still could not get people as no one could live in Seattle for those wages. So the solution was to not only pay a lot more, they will pay 75% of your Orca Card. Its a pre paid pass to ride the Ferry's, the buss, train and so forth. They did this to get people to commute to that job. Only way they could get workers. When I lived in the SW there were several small towns that were only there because a Mine was there. A few of them had Co housing. They did this to get the workers they needed since a lot of them did not want to make that kind of drive to work.

 

[Member 55555]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Alexander Fraser Tytler

 

[nwslopoke]

Exactly it's not like you are deciding on whether you can afford a $6 latte or not. Working people need a roof over their head. If we want to have working poor labor available, we should be working to make housing affordable for the working poor. Subsidies for the freeloaders, drive up the cost of housing. It takes out the free market setting of prices people will pay. Then prices rise to what the government will pay.

You're hitting on the main point. Low wage jobs are not designed to support heads of families. "The working poor", generally unskilled or low skilled labor, is for people just entering the job market or people leaving the job market as older people needing to subsidize their retirement. Maybe college kids in between.

If you want more, you have to invest in yourself or move to the place your skills level will allow you to live comfortably. Everyone struggles at some point, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle. I ended up in Oregon because California was breaking me (same job, just less expensive). So back to your point. We don't want working poor. For everyone in San Franscisco or NYC, there's an Oklahoma City just waiting for you at a fraction of the cost. Not glamorous maybe, but you can be independent with a decent quality of life.

 

[Alexx1401]

As far as housing costs, there's gotta be an end. Rent can increase year over year indefinitely. Commercial housing companies don't have checks and balances, and they're allowed to raise rents x amount over CPI, so it's designed to be elevated over inflation and wages. There is no keeping up with it. Last year, rent went up $160, this year it went up $176, next year it goes up $194. There's gotta be a way to fix housing rates. Owner's mortgages are fixed, but rent is out of control.

The way it will be "fixed" is when no one will pay. As long as people keep voting in law makers who screw them? They will get a good screwing. All the hand outs are great for buying votes. Just tell those you are supporting that if they vote for the other people they will be living on the street and they keep voting for you.

 

[arakboss]

You're hitting on the main point. Low wage jobs are not designed to support heads of families. "The working poor", generally unskilled or low skilled labor, is for people just entering the job market or people leaving the job market as older people needing to subsidize their retirement. Maybe college kids in between.

If you want more, you have to invest in yourself or move to the place your skills level will allow you to live comfortably. Everyone struggles at some point, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle. I ended up in Oregon because California was breaking me (same job, just less expensive). So back to your point. We don't want working poor. For everyone in San Franscisco or NYC, there's an Oklahoma City just waiting for you at a fraction of the cost. Not glamorous maybe, but you can be independent with a decent quality of life.

We need the working poor for a great many jobs and those jobs won't be filled by some bookends of the population. Heck we can't even fill all the job openings now. If everybody moved up in the wage spectrum that will just drive all the prices higher.

 

[Alexx1401]

We need the working poor for a great many jobs and those jobs won't be filled by some bookends of the population. Heck we can't even fill all the job openings now. If everybody moved up in the wage spectrum that will just drive all the prices higher.

Yep but just try telling that to the people who want $25 an hour to ask you if you want fry's with that. It falls on deaf ears. As Rush used to say its hard to compete with Santa.

 

[Richo877]

You're hitting on the main point. Low wage jobs are not designed to support heads of families. "The working poor", generally unskilled or low skilled labor, is for people just entering the job market or people leaving the job market as older people needing to subsidize their retirement. Maybe college kids in between.

If you want more, you have to invest in yourself or move to the place your skills level will allow you to live comfortably. Everyone struggles at some point, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle. I ended up in Oregon because California was breaking me (same job, just less expensive). So back to your point. We don't want working poor. For everyone in San Franscisco or NYC, there's an Oklahoma City just waiting for you at a fraction of the cost. Not glamorous maybe, but you can be independent with a decent quality of life.

In your opinion, is someone who isn't working at the bottom and makes $45k+ annually considered a low wage introduction worker? In this economy, a head of household at that level is poor.

 

[arakboss]

In your opinion, is someone who isn't working at the bottom and makes $45k+ annually considered a low wage introduction worker? In this economy, a head of household at that level is poor.

I consider people making under 60k part of the working poor. If housing cost in your area are more than 30% of your take home income, welcome to the working poor.

 

[Alexx1401]

In your opinion, is someone who isn't working at the bottom and makes $45k+ annually considered a low wage introduction worker? In this economy, a head of household at that level is poor.

This varies GREATLY with where you live. There are many places around me where someone making 45K can live. Don't have to go far to find places where someone making that could NOT live. All of life is about choices. If someone wants to live in places like Seattle? No, they are not going to be living well on 45K a year. Those who can work have to make choices. Not making as much as they want? They have choices about how to improve.

 

[Koda]

Alexander Fraser Tytler

I feel like this election just saved us from the last step in this cycle...

 

[Koda]

Yep but just try telling that to the people who want $25 an hour to ask you if you want fry's with that. It falls on deaf ears. As Rush used to say its hard to compete with Santa.

This is exactly how Democrats get elected and why people get entitled...