Ok...CHL or other pistol classes

[Osarion]

Here's a shortened snippet

 

[mikemenzie]

Interesting watching. Thanks, bud.

 

[mikemenzie]

Good read I came across and wanted to share, since I know some people continue to question this.

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/pdfs/LC Opinion.pdf

 

[IheartSig]

Hi Mike;

Glad you and your mom are thinking about CC.
A list of Oregon certified firearms instructors (pdf page 5)

I suggest taking an Oregon-Utah CC class.

Pass the Class
Apply for OR and UT CC
Read the books
Practice

James Holman (540 Tactical) teaches Oregon-Utah, includes a firing segment to meet Utah's requirements ($135+$50). I've taken his class and think highly of him.

Oregon Firearms Academy, Brownsville is also a top-notch place to train.

The laws are important to understand.
Buy and read
"In the gravest extreme" by Mas Ayoub
"Understanding Oregon's Gun Laws" by Kevin Starrett
"Law of Self-Defense" by Andrew Branca

I am attending Andrew Branca's "Law of Self-Defense" Seminar 13 August in Tualatin ($220)

Regards
Rick

I was gonna say, "hey Mr. Branca is coming to Tualitin", but you're on top of it. A coworker mentioned his book with the forward by Ayoub and it didn't disappoint.

 

[Diamondback]

Also, you might check Mas's website and see if he has any Oregon ranges scheduled to host his classes--usual home-base for him in the NW is Marty Hayes's Firearms Academy of Seattle in Onalaska.

His classes are pricey, $300 per, but he does combine practical and legal--especially when he's co-teaching with Hayes who also has a JD and runs Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network. (And when you can get a hold of him, at least in my experience, despite being busier than a one-legged man in a buttkickin' contest he's very generous with time and knowledge, a real Pay It Forward-er. Edited to note, and that generosity was even with the knowledge that it'd be a long time comin' before I was in a position to sign up for his class.)

 

[JSchuster]

I will add something that hasn't been mentioned-

In the (hopefully never) event you're required to use deadly force, your instructor may be called upon to testify to the nature of the training you've received. While the quality can vary widely, an in person class or comprehensive series of classes will cover a far wider range of topics that might make your use of force more justifiable.

I had not actually considered this, but in the class I took the instructor confirmed the class understood basic firearms safety and operation, and went on to spend a great deal of time discussing the appropriate use of deadly force-- and went on to tell us why: that your right to carry doesn't absolve you of the accountability and consequences of that use of force - it makes you MORE accountable and MORE subject to the consequences. Food for thought.

Thank you and bravo for taking the steps to begin carrying concealed.

 

[mikemenzie]

Yeah, that's been my problem with a lot of classes available. Mostly - that there are a lot of classes available, haha. I've watched Mas's videos, and studied up on a few other things on my own, but it's hard to want to shell out money i don't have for a class that i'm going to expect to teach me this wide range of things - that might not teach much of anything because they're just out for a buck from firearm owners. So far, most everyone i contact says "were the ONLY ones who teach blah, blah, blah...we are definitely the best class...we're the ONLY class that teaches correctly..." etc. Uff. If i wanted a car salesman shtick, i'd...well, I'd go to a car lot.

 

[rick benjamin]

Mike;
Nothing's free.
Count the cost, pay the price.

Take a CC class $150
Apply for License $65
Buy a gun $500, mags $30ea
Holster $50 (mine is $100)
firm cost so far, $845
ammunition to practice $300 per thousand rounds
Change your wardrobe to carry concealed $$$
Buy another holster because your first one doesn't "ride well"
Get another gun because the "cannon" is too big, heavy.

Then I realized that if I used my CC,
Must prove to the LAW that this is a justified shoot. Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Reasonable & Prudent.
Read Deadly Force by Massad Ayoob - $20
Learn the law - Andrew Branca Seminar - $220
Retain a <broken link removed> - $100/year subscription
Repeat until memorized: Officer, I'm too stressed to give a statement at this time, may I please call my lawyer? Thank you.

Deal with flashbacks (PTSD) for the rest of my life.

 

[mikemenzie]

I didn't say i don't expect to pay for things. Didn't say i don't want to pay for things. I said "it's hard to want to shell out money i don't have for a class that i'm going to expect to teach me this wide range of things - that might not teach much of anything because they're just out for a buck from firearm owners."

I appreciate your storyline, bud, and i hope you understand I'm not one of the people looking for a CHL so i can carry a gun and feel cool, or some other such nonsense. I do my best to educate myself about anything i can, and be prudent in my actions, regarding firearms or anything else.
-Mike

 

[Diamondback]

Mike;
Nothing's free.
Count the cost, pay the price.

Take a CC class $150
Apply for License $65
Buy a gun $500, mags $30ea
Holster $50 (mine is $100)
firm cost so far, $845
ammunition to practice $300 per thousand rounds
Change your wardrobe to carry concealed $$$
Buy another holster because your first one doesn't "ride well"
Get another gun because the "cannon" is too big, heavy.

Then I realized that if I used my CC,
Must prove to the LAW that this is a justified shoot. Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Reasonable & Prudent.
Read Deadly Force by Massad Ayoob - $20
Learn the law - Andrew Branca Seminar - $220
Retain a <broken link removed> - $100/year subscription
Repeat until memorized: Officer, I'm too stressed to give a statement at this time, may I please call my lawyer? Thank you.

Deal with flashbacks (PTSD) for the rest of my life.

Don't forget the cost of going through life with 2-3lbs. of steel being crammed into a kidney...

 

[rick benjamin]

Mike
I don't care why ordinary decent citizens choose to carry concealed.
Once they decide ask "What next?", I challenge them to attain perfection.
I share about me so real-world realities can be factored into their thinking.

Diamondback brings comfort and pain into the thread. I minimized by changing my trouser and shirt size, holster cant, etc. Went from kidney carry to hip. Both have + & -. I also have a shoulder holster for semi-formal jacket wear.

If they proceed with self-improvement, all good.
If they doo it for the cools, doom on them. I remind them it's carry CONCEALED, nobody knows.

My opinion is my own.
Have nothing to gain but the warm fuzzies should anyone accept my challenge.

Fair winds, following seas
Rick

 

[rick benjamin]

Add the book Medicolegal Investigation of Death $110

 

[mikemenzie]

Mike
I don't care why ordinary decent citizens choose to carry concealed.
Once they decide ask "What next?", I challenge them to attain perfection.
I share about me so real-world realities can be factored into their thinking.

Diamondback brings comfort and pain into the thread. I minimized by changing my trouser and shirt size, holster cant, etc. Went from kidney carry to hip. Both have + & -. I also have a shoulder holster for semi-formal jacket wear.

If they proceed with self-improvement, all good.
If they doo it for the cools, doom on them. I remind them it's carry CONCEALED, nobody knows.

My opinion is my own.
Have nothing to gain but the warm fuzzies should anyone accept my challenge.

Fair winds, following seas
Rick

I hear where your words are coming from and appreciate it, bud.
-Mike