Officer awaiting backup is assaulted

[CharlesAFerg]

So, she put herself in a situation where she could have been forced to shoot. Justified or not, it was a bad decision. What if this was a guy who knew he could handle himself with this guy? Who was she kidding?

She should have waited, but in all seriousness, she should have fired. (Considering the reality, not what she could have done)

 

[KENOC]

I have a guy I used to do work for that works in a Police agency, he is a Sargent on a SWAT team, I was asking him about a situation like this one time. And he barely let me get out the question and he blurted out "I'd kill em, No doubt".
He said if someone was willing to come after him, he suspected they would kill him and he would do what he had to do. He's going home to his family.

I couldn't agree more. And please don't get me wrong I in no way think Officer's should shoot first ask questions later. But in a situation where some guy or girl will assault a Police Officer, then they don't deserve life.
We need law, and we even more need Officer's that understand the law and enforce it as much as they follow it. But in no way should they give their life so a criminal can live.

Ted Nugent said it best in the following clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_QjEL0uUgo

I agree to a point....at the same time, you can't give the cops license to go around shooting unarmed people. I mean, every time a drunk swings at a cop, when being escorted out of a bar for example, you think it is ok for the cop to draw and put a bullet in his head?
In a situation where the guy is going for the cop's gun..that is one thing. But to just go around shooting unarmed intimidating drunks taking a swing or an unarmed whoever, saying they 'don't deserve life' ....that is over the line....

 

[CharlesAFerg]

I agree to a point....at the same time, you can't give the cops license to go around shooting unarmed people. I mean, every time a drunk swings at a cop, when being escorted out of a bar for example, you think it is ok for the cop to draw and put a bullet in his head?
In a situation where the guy is going for the cop's gun..that is one thing. But to just go around shooting unarmed intimidating drunks taking a swing or an unarmed whoever, saying they 'don't deserve life' ....that is over the line....

Agreed, people assault police all the time, they don't deserve to be shot. Assume they are trying to kill them, yes, but the job of the police is to apprehend these people, and only defend themselves if it be necessary. Did this guy have a weapon, was he on PCP and overwhelm the officer? That's not the impression that I got.

I agree about the ability to defend your life, but taking this out of the LEO world reveals some hypocrisy. If I went around confronting people like this, and shot one because they swung at me, or even knocked me down, I would be arrested by LEO. There's a difference between looking for a fight, defending yourself, and apprehending suspects.

Overall and most importantly, since when has this guy been schooled in even the most basic use of force doctrine..?

 

[ZombieAssassin]

I have a guy I used to do work for that works in a Police agency, he is a Sargent on a SWAT team, I was asking him about a situation like this one time. And he barely let me get out the question and he blurted out "I'd kill em, No doubt".
He said if someone was willing to come after him, he suspected they would kill him and he would do what he had to do. He's going home to his family.

Cops know the Blue Wall of Silence and the system will protect them, even if they do shoot someone and give the most ridiculous of reasons. They are treated more equally than Citizen Nothings. The problem is that the system breeds this mentality of "shoot first, who cares about asking questions". When you are given carte blanche to do pretty much whatever you want, and you are only accountable to the system in which you work, how can anyone expect for a minute that this setup will breed respect for the public and honesty? When there are constant lies, spin, and refusal to be transparent to the public, then what other outcome can be expected but disdain and contempt for Joe Q. Public?

To understand the problem, you have to understand the context AKA the system under which cops, prosecutors, and judges operate. We have not a justice system, it's not even an INjustice system, it is barely even a legal system considering how much people try to define words and contort logic.

 

[KENOC]

And with a system like you just posted about, is it any wonder why Joe Q Public has complete disdain for Joe Cop? Especially after seeing youtube Joe cop beatings of unarmed Joe Q Public over and over and over?

Cops know the Blue Wall of Silence and the system will protect them, even if they do shoot someone and give the most ridiculous of reasons. They are treated more equally than Citizen Nothings. The problem is that the system breeds this mentality of "shoot first, who cares about asking questions". When you are given carte blanche to do pretty much whatever you want, and you are only accountable to the system in which you work, how can anyone expect for a minute that this setup will breed respect for the public and honesty? When there are constant lies, spin, and refusal to be transparent to the public, then what other outcome can be expected but disdain and contempt for Joe Q. Public?

To understand the problem, you have to understand the context AKA the system under which cops, prosecutors, and judges operate. We have not a justice system, it's not even an INjustice system, it is barely even a legal system considering how much people try to define words and contort logic.

 

[wichaka]

Anyone here walk a mile in a LEO's shoes?

Anyone here walk a mile in a combat veterans boots?


Appears the view is pretty good from the cheap seats.

 

[hunterdad66]

Anyone here walk a mile in a LEO's shoes?

Anyone here walk a mile in a combat veterans boots?


Appears the view is pretty good from the cheap seats.

Been there done that. LEO are always going to be judged by people that don't have the slightest clue.

 

[bmont]

KENOC If you take a swing at a cop you deserve to get shot!What do you guys expect them to do? Wait till there life is in danger? Stupid! You get what ya deserve at that point!

 

[bmont]

A2theK,Yes you shoot them.If they threaten you then you shoot plain and simple.Not sure why some of you don't get that.

 

[clearconscience]

I know this is going to be a sensitive topic. Especially in this area, even on this forum.

I can't say my opinions on this are right. This is going to be a topic in which nobody is right.
I was quite mad reading this and some of the post. I have several friends and family that are Officers, and a couple in Portland. I know they can handle themselves, I know they are highly trained and physically capable. But all that can change in one swing. The tactically proficient can be taken out by the element of surprise and the lack care for another life. All of the sudden the criminal has a weapon, if back up arrives, or a responsible citizen they quickly become an unsuspecting victim.
I don't feel bad for anyone who chooses to break the law and is killed in the action of doing so, and if you choose to be violent in any fashion to the Law, you give that Officer the right to use extreme action to protect themselves and others.
I don't have any respect or remorse for someone who chooses not to respect the life of another.
Not matter what we do or what argument we give people will be on opposite side of this discussion.
But I know I would rather have a Cop alive and criminal dead.

 

[bmont]

+1

 

[KENOC]

KENOC If you take a swing at a cop you deserve to get shot!What do you guys expect them to do? Wait till there life is in danger? Stupid! You get what ya deserve at that point!

Really? So why can't i shoot someone who swings at me then? You think it is ok for a cop to use EXCESSIVE force and shoot unarmed people, but i cannot? Why?
Stupid that i cannot then!

 

[KENOC]

A2theK,Yes you shoot them.If they threaten you then you shoot plain and simple.Not sure why some of you don't get that.

I don't know why you don't get it. If you threaten me or swing at me, then i can shoot you? No? Why not? Just cause i don't have a uniform?

 

[KENOC]

Look guys. I will give cops the benefit of the doubt MOST of the time. I abide by the law and have never even gotten a speeding ticket. BUT, human beings are human beings. LEO's have to be kept in check just like all the rest of us. It is human nature to go as far as we CAN if there are no consequences. And the includes LEO's. So no, you can't just give cops or anyone else a blank check to shoot unarmed people that seem intimidating or take a swing. If you do, then you may as well call us the United Socialist States of AmeriKA, because we will at that point be no better than Nazi Germany.
Excessive force, and shooting unarmed people is never acceptable, no matter what uniform you wear, Police, Military, or Postal worker.
With that said, LEO's have one of the toughest jobs in the world, and I have the utmost respect for the uniform and the GOOD ones that wear it.

 

[swoop]

Anyone here walk a mile in a LEO's shoes?

Anyone here walk a mile in a combat veterans boots?


Appears the view is pretty good from the cheap seats.

So true, LEO'S and combat vets share alot of the same dangers and stress. It can be tuff not knowing who the enemy is before being assaulted.

 

[clearconscience]

I don't know why you don't get it. If you threaten me or swing at me, then i can shoot you? No? Why not? Just cause i don't have a uniform?

I don't know about you, but if someone I know I can't take hand to hand assaults me and I have a gun I'm taking necessary action to prevent severe bodily injur or death.
I'm not waiting for him to put me in a wheel chair or kill me. If I try excessively to get away from fighting and he persists I will give him his last fight.

It sounds like you just want to keep the same rights as a leo and no one can argue against that, but if given the same situation I would have fired. I would have done it and I would expect them to do it.

Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

 

[KENOC]

For me, it depends on the situation. I was responding to simply 'if a drunk takes a swing at me'..i don't think it is ok to blow his brains out.
Nor for an officer to.
Choice one against a tougher threat than i can handle...RUN and live......=don't get hurt..don't go to jail.
Choice two...use anything available EXCEPT a gun....= Likely live, and likely not go to jail.
Choice 3....use a gun. Likely live, but likely go to jail.
Gun should almost always be the last thing used against an UNARMED individual.
Would rather not be judged by 12 anti-gun 'peers' or carried by six, unless absolutely necessary. Pride be damned, swallow it and get yourself out of a situation if you cannot handle it with an unarmed person. Talk, run, .... whatever.

I don't know about you, but if someone I know I can't take hand to hand assaults me and I have a gun I'm taking necessary action to prevent severe bodily injur or death.
I'm not waiting for him to put me in a wheel chair or kill me. If I try excessively to get away from fighting and he persists I will give him his last fight.

It sounds like you just want to keep the same rights as a leo and no one can argue against that, but if given the same situation I would have fired. I would have done it and I would expect them to do it.

Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

 

[eriknemily]

So basically we wait until they get killed and say well maybe they shoudl have trained harder?
Maybe people should learn not to be criminals? I don't know maybe I'm crazy. Maybe people should learn to act like adults. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe people should think about their consequences before they do something stupid. Maybe I'm crazy.
Maybe I'm crazy because I would rather see a criminal dead then someone who protects me and my family. I would rather see a criminal dead than your wife, your husband, your children. So when I say "pull the trigger" That's what I mean. How many times has a criminal punched an Officer and taken their weapon and used it on them.
The only good criminal is a dead criminal.
When I read the paper or watch the news and see another Officer dead because some piece of trash didn't what charged with pocession, THAT IRKS ME.

Well put, Clearconscience. Why do so many people, along with the loser media, always make the criminals out to be the victims. It sickens me. Why would society rather rehabilitate these scum-buckets than get rid of them?:huh: And how many successful cases of rehabilitation have there been? I've never heard of any.

 

[eriknemily]

Okay. I'm sure somebody will come up with some obscure cases where persons were successfully rehabilitated. But it is DEFINITELY NOT THE NORM!!!

 

[hunterdad66]

There again. In this instance, the FEMALE OFFICER, ALONE, AGAINST AN UNKNOWN SIZED MAN, MENTAL STABILITY OF MAN STANDING IN THE STREET, POPS HER IN THE FACE... These are all independent articulable facts that would lead a reasonable person to believe that this might not be a good thing for anyone involved. If at any given point she believes that the subject has the ABILITY to hurt or kill someone(his size and maybe even because he is a man in this case), The OPPORTUNITY to hurt or kill someone(push officer into traffic), and if the officer felt her life or someone else's was in JEOPARDY... She, under most dept guidelines in any state in the union has the right and the duty to use deadly force. Any officer should have had prior back up before approaching this subject in my opinion simply based on the fact that this guy might not be mentally sound by standing in traffic.

Not having timely backup is a management responsibility. It also could be a line officer responsibility if they are dragging their feet to get there.