obama and guns

[fd15k]

I will vote for Obama if Ron Paul drops out of the race, because I trust that other clown trio even less than I trust Obama

 

[SonicBlue03]

First, look up and really understand the definition of Straw Man before you toss that statement out.

As a gun owner? Yes, I am okay voting for Obama considering his previous positions. For a few reasons but I'll outline two easy ones.
1) History: 1994, the last significant push to dig into 2A (I can't believe I'm one of the only people that seem to remember '94. It was the year I bought my first AR.) Congress turned over to the GOP for the first time in...40 years? Speaker of the House was from my district and we all voted Nethercutt, primarily on the strength of what happened to 2A. Not one significant, meaningful push to infringe on 2A at the Federal level has occurred since.
2) Political capital: 2A is one of the capstones that people feel very passionate about in this country, even those who may not actively own guns - just like 1A, the belief is strong that - while someone may not like guns, they don't feel strongly enough about taking them away from others or overly restricting them. Local case in point - (Measure 667 or something like that) which required training and registration in Washington State. The west side of the state has been a liberal bastion for decades and that Measure still lost. That was the one supported openly by Bill Gates Sr. and III.

I also think there are much bigger issues that will occupy the next sitting President and any attack on 2A would render his ability to legislate any form of progressive agenda impossible. Congress right now is teetering on flipping to Democrat given the massive missteps of Boehner and company; but an attempt to subvert 2A would undo every bit of stupidity the GOP has brought to bear this past year and give them that golden "get out of jail free" card.

And before you call me a misguided liberal, yada, yada, yada, I've been a registered Republican since the day I could register to vote (same day I signed up for Selective Service.) Last election was the first time I'd voted Democrat, and unless the GOP can show me a candidate that is holistically better for the United States, this election will be a second time. And after that second term, my gun rights then will be the same as they are today.

 

[SonicBlue03]

I will vote for Obama if Ron Paul drops out of the race, because I trust that other clown trio even less than I trust Obama

And right now Santorum is doing a bang-up job trying to become the real life Greg Stillson.




(Dead Zone by Stephen King, for those unsure of the reference.)

 

[SonicBlue03]

"TRADITIONAL NON-2A.." You meant tradition anti-gun, anti 2A, correct?

Po-TA-to, Po-TAH-to.

It's obvious you didn't grow up on the streets, never had to look over your back, or watch a duck walk. It's not fear mongering, It is being attentive, it is being astute at understanding that Obama is is liar today or was a liar when he was a Senator. Take your pick.

No, it's fear mongering. You continue to go back to past examples but have nothing to show for the current term. Taking on healthcare was easier than taking on 2A and look where that got him.

"No, you didn't like my answers, and you do not like anyone who points out Obama's anti gun anti 2A RECORD as a clear indication he may just flex his anti-gun anti 2A muscles in his secind term.
The likelihood is there that he will, and that is good enough for those of us who have had experiences with such liars as Obama.

Because you didn't give any answers. You regurgitated past positions when he occupied a role that was far less expansive than President. That's not an answer, that's an attempt at a history lesson. And I still argue that the history lesson of '94 is far more powerful than the state history of Illinois over the past two decades.

When nothing changes - and I'm making that assumption now - what will you say in four years during the next election process? Will you look back on this and say, "wow, I was wrong" or will you generate the same regurgitation that you and others without a position are happy to paste in?

Again, if you just say, "I don't know and I'm afraid of the unknown" that is a perfectly acceptable answer. Trying to justify it just looks silly.

 

[MikeE]

You may be right about those countries. The fact you by passed any comment on Obamacare says a lot. I bet not one gun toting American would be happy with those countries gun laws so it is all relevant to what we are used to. I am not interested in a Europe style life with gov the ruler of our lives and having them in every part of our business and lives. If the only thing you are interested in our constitution is your gun rights then why bother at all with the constitution as that is really what this current dictator is all about any lose of liberty is no freedom at all. Its curious how anyone can compartmentalize their love of guns then give up all other liberty that goes along with it. It’s all connected

Yeah. First they make you have free health care, next thing you know you're sitting in an outdoor cafe, sipping aperitif during a government enforced one month paid vacation in August. Too scary for words.

 

[Partsproduction]

You PC progressives go ahead and vote for him, my happiness is not conditional on my right to keep and bear arms. You can't take my happiness away from me because it is based on something eternal, and gun rights aren't even near being in the running. Knowing that people could see what obama is all about, I do admit, that would make me happier, but it's clear that there is some kind of blindness at work, it is so profound that (I'm sure) after our gun rights are gone you will rationalize it away, "Bush did it" (or something else similar), Heck I don't begin to understand the workings of the PC mind, but I know that you will not blame yourselves after you deprive us of our Constitutional rights.

I don't hate you for it, I pity you.

 

[fd15k]

You PC progressives go ahead and vote for him, my happiness is not conditional on my right to keep and bear arms. You can't take my happiness away from me because it is based on something eternal, and gun rights aren't even near being in the running. Knowing that people could see what obama is all about, I do admit, that would make me happier, but it's clear that there is some kind of blindness at work, it is so profound that (I'm sure) after our gun rights are gone you will rationalize it away, "Bush did it" (or something else similar), Heck I don't begin to understand the workings of the PC mind, but I know that you will not blame yourselves after you deprive us of our Constitutional rights.

I don't hate you for it, I pity you.

That's another conundrum being repeated. On one hand many gun owners believe that gun ownership is a God given (or natural) right, reaffirmed by the Constitution. On another hand they are afraid that some guy, with specific limited powers (subjected to checks & balances, and other Constitutional constraints), will take that away. Weird.

Oh, and one more thing... I don't understand, if that is the plan, why did "they" wait whole 150 years until 2A is interpreted as Individual and becomes Incorporated before taking those rights away ?

 

[Partsproduction]

On one hand many gun owners believe that gun ownership is a God given (or natural) right, reaffirmed by the Constitution. On another hand they are afraid that some guy, with specific limited powers (subjected to checks & balances, and other Constitutional constraints), will take that away. Weird.

God gave me my life too, that doesn't mean some evil hearted person can't take that either.

 

[Kevatc]

Will you agree that his political voting record is anti-gun?

I would agree as a state legislator he was anti-gun but what means tons more to me is what he hasn't done as POTUS in regards to the 2A. Sonic said it well below. Saying "I'm afraid he will do something anti-2A" is perfectly acceptable. Saying Obama is defintely going to do something anti-2A requires some factual backup. Otherwise what you're saying is mindless regurgitation of others speculative fear-mongering.

I will agree that his voting AS A SENATOR was inline with traditional non-2A. I'm talking Presidential efforts. I've not seen any anti-2A legislation that he's pushed or supported as President.

I will agree that many of you have nothing empirical from his current term to point that he plans to undermine 2A. Speculation that "something might happen" is just fear mongering. If you have something specific - current - to hang your hat on, great. But no one seems to.

Already had this discussion (or tried to) with Gunfixx. He set his sights firmly behind himself. He also had zero answer.

You PC progressives go ahead and vote for him, my happiness is not conditional on my right to keep and bear arms. You can't take my happiness away from me because it is based on something eternal, and gun rights aren't even near being in the running. Knowing that people could see what obama is all about, I do admit, that would make me happier, but it's clear that there is some kind of blindness at work, it is so profound that (I'm sure) after our gun rights are gone you will rationalize it away, "Bush did it" (or something else similar), Heck I don't begin to understand the workings of the PC mind, but I know that you will not blame yourselves after you deprive us of our Constitutional rights.

I don't hate you for it, I pity you.

I am assuming your comment was directed at one or several of us who are questioning those who feel there are 2A infringements coming along. I can't speak for the others but I am a 2A supporter just like anyone else here. Questioning and not buying into fear mongering isn't the same as wanting or even supporting the deprivation of a right.

 

[DMax]

For all you Obama lovers who always say "You right wingers are just fear based what has Obama done to take away your gun rights" .Whatever BHO does it will NOT be through congress but regulation under cover for the saftey of the People cause they know better how to take care of you than you do for yourself. So you won't know what he does until its too late as he will create regulation not laws. With all his anti gun czars writing the regulation in the background through EPA and Obamacare. So since you seem to trust BHO then keep doing the same thing over and over and don't complain about the results when it to late to unwind.

MILLER: Firing back at gun control - Washington Times

 

[JGRuby]

What logic is there that points to the belief that anyone of the republicans wont make it worse. Romney has done more to restrict gun ownership in his own state than Obama ever did to date.

James Ruby

 

[Partsproduction]

I am assuming your comment was directed at one or several of us who are questioning those who feel there are 2A infringements coming along.

I'd think my comments to be clearly aimed at "PC Progressives", who are much more cohesive in their voting practices than conservatives, they have and will, for the overwhelming part, vote for gun grabber obama. If they enjoy gun ownership they are like the negligent operators who shoot themselves in the foot, or even more likely, others better than themselves in the immediate area. Not by actually shooting guns, but by shooting down gun rights.

If someone clearly and repeatedly points out a danger, as Gunfixx has done here, and others continue to deny the obvious danger, one is forced to believe there is a blindness going on. That blindness is deliberate and based on an erroneous world view. Conscious denial of reality because of a refusal to face the truth. Willful ignorance.

 

[2506]

George Carlin was a moron.

There, I fixed it for you.

 

[FourTeeFive]

Last election was the first time I'd voted Democrat, and unless the GOP can show me a candidate that is holistically better for the United States, this election will be a second time. And after that second term, my gun rights then will be the same as they are today.

Only time will tell.

 

[JGRuby]

The question has never been answered yet - "What makes any of you certain that the republican candidates wont make as big a mess or bigger if they get elected into office?"

James Ruby

 

[FourTeeFive]

The question has never been answered yet - "What makes any of you certain that the republican candidates wont make as big a mess or bigger if they get elected into office?"

James Ruby

There is no certainty. There is just the Hope for Change, to regurgitate a previous slogan. I'm still waiting for the Change I Can Believe In.

I don't see much positive to come from Obama in office, now or in the future.

 

[JGRuby]

Until there is some logic or evidence quit blowing smoke - its all hear say and scare tactics - typical Republican methed of getting votes and controlling debates. Until someone can provide logic that a Republican candidate will do a better job I have no reason to vote for a Republican. I lost more rights under the last Republican president than I have under Obama.

James Ruby

 

[rolandson]

Never ceases to amaze...this wonderful clairvoyance some seem to possess...Where were you guys with the crystal balls just before the market went into the toilet?

Oh, my mistake; that was during the last administration.

 

[fd15k]

Never ceases to amaze...this wonderful clairvoyance some seem to possess...Where were you guys with the crystal balls just before the market went into the toilet?

Elaborate please ?

 

[DMax]

Never ceases to amaze...this wonderful clairvoyance some seem to possess...Where were you guys with the crystal balls just before the market went into the toilet?

Oh, my mistake; that was during the last administration.

Are you referencing the last admin under a Democratic controlled congress? My money came out of the market jan 07 Never lost a dime under that mess.