obama and guns

[SonicBlue03]

We're talking the 2A here. When it comes to the 2A, Obama has a background contrary to defending the Constitution. Adding to that, that HE re-newed the Patriot Act, and even added to it can only lead me to believe that he is not a defender of the Constitution.
All we can go by is a man's established record, and his record SUCKS!

Renewing Patriot Act isn't the same as increasing the restrictions of 2A. That's continuing a U.S. policy that's been in place for a decade. If you voted for Bush not once but twice (the latter being more important for the sake of the argument) then I have a really hard time thinking that your concern about the Patriot Act now is a legitimate position to take to dislike the current sitting President. If it was that big a deal for you, you would have emphatically voted for anyone but GWB the 2nd time.

Without specifically pointing to something you think he's going to restrict in addition or take away, all you're doing is regurgitating past positions and actions pre-Presidency (with exception of the PA renewal.) What has he done recently that indicates that he's going to undercut 2A in his second term?

 

[fd15k]

Anyone who does not think through Obamacare that they cannot get rid of guns as a safety reason to keep getting health insurance is living in denial.. When the gov pays for your benefits they have the right to tell you how to live with or without guns especially if there are children in the house. Let's see does anyone know if any socialized country with gov paid healthcare can carry concealed weapons? Or have gun freedom? Regulation and executive orders will be the norm with Obamacare Congress and the constitution will be null especially if the Supreme Court goes alone with the mandate of the feds making you buy it. It time to start using your critical thinking skills. We don't live in trust worthy times.

That's a convenient but inappropriate argument you're trying to make. Few developed nations had constitutional protections for guns. Few developed nations have our (or higher) crime rates. And very few went for a complete ban of firearms. But let's try Austria and Italy as possible examples - concealed carry is allowed there. Another interesting example would be among developing countries in EU - majority of Eastern Block countries have permissive concealed carry laws, and they have inherited socialized medicine from their former systems.

 

[JGRuby]

Politcis and religion should be completely seperated - I am tired of hearing how or what religion a person believes makes him less of a human. I personally think that religion is the biggest joke ever played on mankind as a whole. Secondly I am against supporting Israel any longer until we start getting something out of that country instead of spending billions of dollars to support them. Since you have quoted me i have the right to respond.

James Ruby

 

[fd15k]

Based on his entire background, what makes you so sure he will not work against the 2A?
Based on his entire background, I beleive he has a desire to do so in his secoind term if we are so condemned to him winning ther election.
Furthermore, I see him and his entire ideology as a threat to our nation.

Do you think he is stupid ? What's the point of attacking 2A, if any possible damage can and will be reverted once he is out of office ?
And what ideology would that be specifically ?

When Obama was running for the office in 2008, his campaign website stated that he favored renewal of Assault Weapons Ban. This is his current campaign website :
http://www.barackobama.com
Nothing even remotely related to guns there

 

[fd15k]

Yes, I think he is an idiot

Then you have nothing to worry about

 

[SonicBlue03]

Based on his entire background, what makes you so sure he will not work against the 2A?
Based on his entire background, I beleive he has a desire to do so in his secoind term if we are so condemned to him winning ther election.
Furthermore, I see him and his entire ideology as a threat to our nation.

So your answer is, "I don't know, and I have no examples whatsoever so I'm going to base my statements on faith."

It's kind of like trying to refute science with religion.

To answer your question to me, I'd say his past almost-four-years have shown me that he's done nothing to impede my ownership of firearms. In fact, the local (state) trend has become more favorable if anything. In the past year I've purchased five new pistols and three suppressors; I can use those suppressors and I've used those pistols and there is not one thing that has caused me inconvenience based on any government action.

The only thing he's done is allow people to build a fearful perception which has driven up prices of things I want and own. The latter is good, the former just irritates me.

 

[DMax]

That's a convenient but inappropriate argument you're trying to make. Few developed nations had constitutional protections for guns. Few developed nations have our (or higher) crime rates. And very few went for a complete ban of firearms. But let's try Austria and Italy as possible examples - concealed carry is allowed there. Another interesting example would be among developing countries in EU - majority of Eastern Block countries have permissive concealed carry laws, and they have inherited socialized medicine from their former systems.

You may be right about those countries. The fact you by passed any comment on Obamacare says a lot. I bet not one gun toting American would be happy with those countries gun laws so it is all relevant to what we are used to. I am not interested in a Europe style life with gov the ruler of our lives and having them in every part of our business and lives. If the only thing you are interested in our constitution is your gun rights then why bother at all with the constitution as that is really what this current dictator is all about any lose of liberty is no freedom at all. Its curious how anyone can compartmentalize their love of guns then give up all other liberty that goes along with it. It's all connected

 

[SonicBlue03]

He passed by it because it's not germane to the topic. Plus I don't know how familiar you are with the current state of healthcare and how people take care of themselves in this country, but maybe holding people accountable to some level of personal care might not be a bad thing.

That said, please show the connection between the President's attempt at national healthcare (which was poorly planned and executed) and a possible attack on 2A. You're saying they're connected which implies you see the connection. Please. Enlighten us.

 

[fd15k]

You may be right about those countries. The fact you by passed any comment on Obamacare says a lot. I bet not one gun toting American would be happy with those countries gun laws so it is all relevant to what we are used to. I am not interested in a Europe style life with gov the ruler of our lives and having them in every part of our business and lives. If the only thing you are interested in our constitution is your gun rights then why bother at all with the constitution as that is really what this current dictator is all about any lose of liberty is no freedom at all. Its curious how anyone can compartmentalize their love of guns then give up all other liberty that goes along with it. It's all connected

See, I'm not a black/white believer. I believe we can have our Constitutional protections for rights, with certain additional services (say in addition to national defense) provided by the government. One doesn't not have to exclude the other. Besides, that's what our system already is, most of the tensions are around the funding for such services, not whether they are appropriate under our ideology.

 

[FourTeeFive]

Personally I'm amazed that anyone would vote for Obama after his pathetic record, regardless of viewpoint on gun rights. Add into it the fact that we've got gun owner's here justifying their decision to vote for Obama, all I can say is we're all pretty well screwed in the future. Don't say we didn't warn you.

 

[DMax]

Please don't confuse Personal Accountability with Control or soft tyranny. The problem is not how people take care of themselves it that they are co dependant on gov which is not taking care of themselves at all. I really like how you can answer for someone else are you twins with him?

 

[Toxic6]

Politcis and religion should be completely seperated - I am tired of hearing how or what religion a person believes makes him less of a human. I personally think that religion is the biggest joke ever played on mankind as a whole. Secondly I am against supporting Israel any longer until we start getting something out of that country instead of spending billions of dollars to support them. Since you have quoted me i have the right to respond.

James Ruby

I don't believe religion should come into play in modern politics either -but pulling support of a country we helped build (that still helps us with tech and intel, not to mention being a foothold in an otherwise "anti-American" area) would help how? We spend billions of dollars on countries that actively hate/protest us (especially the last few years). Also, I do not think we spend billions of dollars on Israel - if you are going to start counting private monies sent to foreign countries, Mexico is a big one too lol. I personally am all for pulling ALL foreign aid until we take care of our own back yard - including but not limited to telling the UN and those bound by NATO to go frag off and get their monies somewhere else lol.

 

[JGRuby]

Fredom of religion is a right we have in this country - a person can worhsip a turnip if they want - I really dont care. What ever religion a person has should not have a impact on that persons right to have or bear arms. Yet we keep hearing that the president is a muslim. I dont beleive that he is but even if he is - he has the right to practice what ever religion he wants. Seems to me the freedom loving 2A protectors have very little concern over protecting the other rights we have. A president is elected by the people, as I understand it Obama was elected by the people - hence wether people like it or not he is the president. We have the right to say that he is doing a poor job - I disagree but thats beside the point - he is the president till we elect another or he is unable to fulfill his responsibilty as president of the US. Get over it - it is what it is. I keep hearing people calling fear and the beleif that our guns will be taken away. I would say we have more rights today as far as firearms go than we did ten years ago.The only law that I know that has effected me directly is the use of lead. I know of no better way to ensure that the rest of the country thinks we are nuts than to keep making noise over something that might possibly happen somtime in the future. We gun owners are the minority in this country so keep pissing off the rest of the citizens and we will surely lose what we call rights.

James Ruby

 

[Kevatc]

Anyone who does not think through Obamacare that they cannot get rid of guns as a safety reason to keep getting health insurance is living in denial.. When the gov pays for your benefits they have the right to tell you how to live with or without guns especially if there are children in the house. Let's see does anyone know if any socialized country with gov paid healthcare can carry concealed weapons? Or have gun freedom? Regulation and executive orders will be the norm with Obamacare Congress and the constitution will be null especially if the Supreme Court goes alone with the mandate of the feds making you buy it. It time to start using your critical thinking skills. We don't live in trust worthy times.

So the "socialized" medicine we have now in terms of veteran's care and Medicare are able to tell those folks who they service that they can't have guns in their homes? Really? Think about it. I don't want to get in a tit for tat but you have consumed a paranoid and mindless flavor of koolaid that causes you to regurgitate stuff that has no basis in fact.

 

[Bigfoot]

What has he done recently that indicates that he's going to undercut 2A in his second term?

Fast and Furious, Operation Castaway and I forget the name of the Texas ATF operation were mostly about incremental gun registration starting in the SW, the emails prove it.

I can tie possible 2A restrictions to Obamacare. Thanks to the bill all of our bank and credit accounts are now watched in real time. Bet the IRS loves that. Buy a gun with a check or a card, they know about it. Not saying they will, but now they can.

Nice to see a debate go on this long without all that name calling.

 

[SonicBlue03]

I'm struggling with F&F and Castaway being seen as an erosion of 2A; that struck me more as a blatant misappropriation by ATF and AG Holder than anything. True that the President put Holder in office, but I'm having difficulty linking that to an overt act by Obama to undercut 2A.

With regard to any possible monitoring of private/personal information I'd suggest that's been done for a while under PA or even under Carnivore before that, which was claimed to be a failure but even I have a bit of a tinfoil hat about how failed it really was.

 

[Toxic6]

We gun owners are the minority in this country .....

James Ruby

I disagree there......otherwise I can see your side of the argument - freedom of religion is a right, just as freedom of speech and the right to bear arms (lets not forget the right to vote, for what it is worth). I think the reality is that gun owners are the majority, just too many have been convinced they are lucky to be allowed said right, feel they are criminalized, or believe they have to hide their gun ownership for whatever other reason - whatever the case may be I do not believe that so few people own so many known guns, let alone the ones that are known to have been manufactured but unaccounted for (and really not counting those that have been sold or manufactured without record lol).

 

[Toxic6]

With regard to any possible monitoring of private/personal information I'd suggest that's been done for a while under PA or even under Carnivore before that, which was claimed to be a failure but even I have a bit of a tinfoil hat about how failed it really was.

I think carnivore is called google now.

 

[fd15k]

I disagree there......

unless you have some other numbers, this is what's usually said :

Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun(that's about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million. Removed those that skew the stats for their own purposes the best estimates are about 45% or 52 million of American households owning 260 million guns).

Total number of adults owning guns is estimated 70-80 million. Giving total population size of over 300 million, or adult population over 230 million, gun owners ARE a minority group.

 

[Norm0931]

unless you have some other numbers, this is what's usually said :



Total number of adults owning guns is estimated 70-80 million. Giving total population size of over 300 million, or adult population over 230 million, gun owners ARE a minority group.

Do you have a reliable source for this data?