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Mikej

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We've explored that idea a few times and get nothing but negative feedback about it. No one wants to pay another fee to park on our own lands, even if the funds where to go toward improving or maintaining rec shooting. So, we've dropped the idea. I thought it was well worth exploring and getting feedback, but, it turned out to be not well received by the shooting community.
For me? Personally? These lanes could go away. There's no way to get on them on a weekend. there's practically no way to get on them on a week day unless you're there shortly after first light. And worst of all? I need to drive across the hell of potland traffic TWICE to utilize the lanes. The only use I have for these lanes is we really enjoy getting out there to clean them up with the group of folks from NWFAs and others. I'd say make it a permit system. Screw 'em! I might even pay into it if it cut back on the over crowding and destruction of the sites.


I’ve even bumped heads with ranking officials on this website for trying to make a point about simply shooting at non manufactured targets, aka trash, and I was made the enemy.

Some people just do not want to better the shooting sports ways. They are too stuck in traditional, shoot what ever I want, my grandpa shot that way, mentality.
I won't bump heads with you Brian. And I certainly don't consider you an enemy. But, I've said it before and I'll say it again now. It shouldn't matter what people shoot at for targets as long as it's cleaned up afterwards. And isn't explosive or toxic to the environment somehow. How about those kits the pressurize 2-liter bottles to get a harmless 'Boom" when their shot? People get to feeling like children being talked down to with rules like not able to shoot colored water in milk jugs.

And hey! I hope the new house is as exciting and fun it should be for you three! :D
 

Reno

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I won't bump heads with you Brian. And I certainly don't consider you an enemy. But, I've said it before and I'll say it again now. It shouldn't matter what people shoot at for targets as long as it's cleaned up afterwards. And isn't explosive or toxic to the environment somehow. How about those kits the pressurize 2-liter bottles to get a harmless 'Boom" when their shot? People get to feeling like children being talked down to with rules like not able to shoot colored water in milk jugs.

And hey! I hope the new house is as exciting and fun it should be for you three! :D
Thanks Mike. The new place is coming together and is a really great home for us to raise the little one.

As for shooting trash...

Ive heard this before and not just from you.

My reply is usually along these lines.

Saying it is ok to shoot trash as long as you pick it up is along the lines of saying cursing in front of a young child is ok as long as you also tell them it’s not ok to say those words.

You know those kids are going to say those bad words.

My point being, setting a precedence of not giving the next person the visible example that shooting this stuff is ok.

For example, you never curse in front of your kids and always make example to say it’s bad when someone else does in front of them. They learn it’s not ok.

You never shoot trash in front of anyone and make known those that do are poor recreational shooters, it sets the precedence to those that are ignorant to it, that it is bad.

That or make the fines stricter.

It’s up to the recreational shooter really.

Be better, or get more restrictions.
 
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Even if you shoot trash and clean it up you leave micro plastics, and pieces of trash that are too small and tedious to pick up. It sets a bad example. In the high desert of Utah this is a problem and eventually leads to people leaving more and more small amounts of trash. Then someone comes along puts it in a pile and burns it. I watched this for over 30 years and now the lands are no longer accessible for shooting.
 

Mikej

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Even if you shoot trash and clean it up you leave micro plastics, and pieces of trash that are too small and tedious to pick up. It sets a bad example. In the high desert of Utah this is a problem and eventually leads to people leaving more and more small amounts of trash. Then someone comes along puts it in a pile and burns it. I watched this for over 30 years and now the lands are no longer accessible for shooting.
"Micro Plastics"? :s0140: while thousands of pounds of highly toxic lead dust/fragments are embedded into the ground and dispersed in the air? OOH Kay.
 

Mikej

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You’re hilarious. The world is going to trash so why does it matter right. Being a bit obtuse.
I don't think you know anything about me. I'll do what I can do. You do the same.

Maybe you could get out and help with some of those clean-ups. Being the highly conscientious person you are?
 
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I don't think you know anything about me. I'll do what I can do. You do the same.

Maybe you could get out and help with some of those clean-ups. Being the highly conscientious person you are?
Youre mocking me is ignorant and inappropriate.

To clarify Micro plastics look like this. They are toxic (wildlife/humans) and work their way into the water systems eventually. I hope that clarifies my statement.

Thank You.

162BB971-CBC7-4466-8EFB-678017751063.jpeg
 
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mattnorthwest

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Lead and plastics are both toxic. Just because lead is toxic doesn't mean we shouldn't try to limit the other hazards we introduce into the environment.

But - I'd rather keep those discussions to other threads in this forum :)
 

Flymph

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There are already laws against littering and vandalism, so they can't be following all the laws... @Reno
I can see an otherwise law abiding person shoot and litter, but can't imagine them shooting signage
Maybe I'm wrong.
Either way, I hope these people get what's coming to them.
 

Reno

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There are already laws against littering and vandalism, so they can't be following all the laws... @Reno
I can see an otherwise law abiding person shoot and litter, but can't imagine them shooting signage
Maybe I'm wrong.
Either way, I hope these people get what's coming to them.
Trust me when I say...

I’ve seen it all.

That‘s probably not accurate, I’ve seen more than others...

Ive driven up on folks in the woods, something I don’t do anymore, to strike up conversations and get information on how people utilize certain areas and why they chose them. I did a lot of this while volunteering for ODF to assist in getting more lanes up at Wolf Creek developed.

Many would try and justify clear infractions on the basic rules of gun safety with nonsense answers that had more holes in them than Swiss cheese.

Simply put, I got jaded really quickly with the sheer amount of people who just thought they could do whatever the F they want.

This, and the birth of my son, is the reasons I stepped down my efforts to do more out in Tillamook State Forest.

I just do not see it getting any better without new restrictions. People refuse to change.
 

Timbertodd

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The last time I was at the lanes was during the summer cleanup. When I shoot I will opt for the club because the lanes are so busy. They do fulfill a much needed spot to the shooting community. I want to tip my hat to Cogs, Reno the other board members and all the volunteers I have had the privilege to trudge in the mud with and enjoy a burger or dog afterwards. When it comes to acts of senseless vandalism like this, your head will explode attempting to figure it out. It just like the fools who find it exhilarating to deface businesses, public restrooms etc. Shy of an eye in the sky loaded with a missile to take the dipsticks out (kidding) all we can do is attempt to educate and self monitor. And cleanup after the children make their mess which some will continue to make till someone is changing their adult diapers and they cannot get out to the forest any longer. We live in a ME society today and there are so many who feel they are entitled to a place shoot and be damned about responsibilities. Okay off the soapbox now. Im not available this weekend to help with repairs but I am next weekend even that Friday ( Black Friday). I have 2 manual auger posthole diggers and I can pick up 2 pressure treated 8' 4x4s. Are the posts set in concrete? Cogs, Reno keep me posted in regards to the repair crew.
 

MaruSan

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Fees and a permit are an idea I'd like, but I kind of wonder if that's just asking for trouble. Given that this spot is in the middle of nowhere, a gate with a chain is begging for bolt cutters, and a card reader is probably just going to make a good target for a 12 ga. I wish it were different, and that all the morons just congregated at Brown's camp, but you just can't fix stupid. :(
 

Mikej

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The last time I was at the lanes was during the summer cleanup. When I shoot I will opt for the club because the lanes are so busy. They do fulfill a much needed spot to the shooting community. I want to tip my hat to Cogs, Reno the other board members and all the volunteers I have had the privilege to trudge in the mud with and enjoy a burger or dog afterwards. When it comes to acts of senseless vandalism like this, your head will explode attempting to figure it out. It just like the fools who find it exhilarating to deface businesses, public restrooms etc. Shy of an eye in the sky loaded with a missile to take the dipsticks out (kidding) all we can do is attempt to educate and self monitor. And cleanup after the children make their mess which some will continue to make till someone is changing their adult diapers and they cannot get out to the forest any longer. We live in a ME society today and there are so many who feel they are entitled to a place shoot and be damned about responsibilities. Okay off the soapbox now. Im not available this weekend to help with repairs but I am next weekend even that Friday ( Black Friday). I have 2 manual auger posthole diggers and I can pick up 2 pressure treated 8' 4x4s. Are the posts set in concrete? Cogs, Reno keep me posted in regards to the repair crew.
I'm in total awe of the work that Cogs and Reno have done up there. And others that are on THAT side of potland, TODD :), and can get up there easily. And to the folks of Tillamook State forest too. I like to feel that sense of pride when I pass that sign into MY/our forest. Seeing that board at lane 4 shot down is like crushing a nut to the whole group that looks after those lanes. :(

@Timbertodd , your wrong comparing the people that destroyed that sign to..It just like the fools who find it exhilarating to deface businesses, public restrooms etc. People in the firearms community are held to a higher standard. And in my relatively short time in the firearms community I can tell you I've never met a group of more considerate, upstanding individuals in my entire life. I don't have a classification for that type of person. :s0170:
 

MaruSan

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@Mikej go to Brown's Camp or some of the places I used to shoot at when I lived in Utah, and you'll meet some of the other type of shooter, lol.

We really are spoiled with a good community here. It seems to me that ideas like "police your brass," "don't shoot trash and leave it on the range," and "don't drink while you shoot" are common sense things that aren't as common as you'd hope with a certain type of shooter. That's one reason people like @Cogs, @Reno, and @Timbertodd do such good work. The shooting spot they keep up really does tend to attract the more responsible members of the community. At least that's been my experience. I think the difference we're talking about is firearms enthusiasts vs people just like to go out and shoot sh*t.
 

Mikej

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@Mikej go to Brown's Camp or some of the places I used to shoot at when I lived in Utah, and you'll meet some of the other type of shooter, lol.

We really are spoiled with a good community here. It seems to me that ideas like "police your brass," "don't shoot trash and leave it on the range," and "don't drink while you shoot" are common sense things that aren't as common as you'd hope with a certain type of shooter. That's one reason people like @Cogs, @Reno, and @Timbertodd do such good work. The shooting spot they keep up really does tend to attract the more responsible members of the community. At least that's been my experience. I think the difference we're talking about is firearms enthusiasts vs people just like to go out and shoot sh*t.
When I started, 2010 +/-, I first went to Browns Camp. I'm not doubting what you say, but we found nice people there back then. Week days/mornings is when we went. We pulled in at the Beaver Dam Pit a few weeks ago on a mushroom hunting trip. Pretty messy. But the information board wasn't shot down! :(
 
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Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here but I've always thought of it this way. People who want to enjoy areas for shooting (which should be all of us) can contribute in one of 2 ways. Either pitch in time to clean up and or contribute physically with your own time and energy to make for a good outdoor shooting area OR pay your dues in $$. I'm pretty anchored at my job but my job also pays me well enough that I can gladly chip in some $$ to help others do their jobs more effectively. I've never understood the concept of being into the sport of shooting and being too cheap to spend the few extra bucks for the PLACE to do it. I'll spend a few thousand on guns this year, several hundreds more on ammo but I can't chip in maybe $100 over a years time for a good solid place to shoot? Doesn't make any sense to me. At least you're choosing where your money is spent. I'm sure a lot of our tax dollars are wasted on much less.
 

Mikej

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go to Brown's Camp or some of the places I used to shoot at when I lived in Utah, and you'll meet some of the other type of shooter, lol.
Where did you live in Utah? I grew up in Midvale. A burb 12 miles south of SLC. We came to PDX in June '83
 

Timbertodd

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Mike I agree we are held to a higher standard, mainly due to the spotlight that is held over us especially in this day and age. These people are still fools who get their jollies off on destruction and inevitably the end result seems to be closures.
 

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