Norma brass issues?

[Yarome]

I had heard Norma was supposed to be really high quality brass for reloading, but I'm having my doubts.

I bought a goodly amount of factory loads and now on the 2nd reloading cycle. What I seem to be noticing though is an inordinate amount of ejector imprints, hard bolt lift and several of them won't hold a primer. Bullets and loads are a long standing plinking recipe for me and quite moderate to conservative. The first reload I backed off about 5% (new component) and planned on working it up this time around, but I dunno now....

I've used the same receipe for years, same rifles, and reloaded a bunch of different brass without nearly the number of issues so quickly. Plinker stuff I go as conservative as I can to keep costs and case stress to a minimum. Gotta squeeze as many reloads out of them as I can.

Has anyone be using their brass and noticed it being exceptionally soft, or.... that's just the nature of the beast these days with "new" brass? I admit it's been a long time since I've brought in new cases, but still.

The majority is perfectly reloadable, but the attrition rate seems exceptionally higher than other brass (including some crap shtuffs) I've reloaded in the past.

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[po18guy]

I would shoot Norma an email stating what you have said here and see what their response is. Every maker has a bad batch now and then and they are pretty much a start-up as to their UIS operations.

 

[ma96782]

You could have at least mentioned.....

What caliber brass?

Aloha, Mark

PS....note the thread about Norma 9mm recall?

Norma 9mm ammo recall.

Just a heads up, there is a recall for certain lots of GECO and Norma ammunition. I normally use GECO and never had any issue, so when I saw there was a deal on the gundeals Reddit page, I jumped on it. I got an email this week about a recall and my lot was included. I wanted to see how bad it...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[Yarome]

You could have at least mentioned.....

What caliber brass?

Aloha, Mark

PS....note the thread about Norma 9mm recall?

.223, but does it matter? I believe it's the casing material characteristics that may be in question and I would think, if that's the case, it would be evident acrosss multiple calibers. I didn't want to limit my question to only those reloading that specific caliber.

I'm aware of the 9mm recall as well as the more hushed .223 recall, but mine wasn't purchased until well after that and this lot was not involved.

I would shoot Norma an email stating what you have said here and see what their response is.

I thought about that, but I was holding off to get more general information from othes first. Like, since I haven't introduced any newer brass in awhile I was curious if that's just kinda common and par for the course these days or not. If others had noticed the same and thought it was not consistent with other mfg's "new brass" then it would leave me to believe even more that it's really just specific to Norma and would then try a follow-up with them.

KWIM(?) No point making an issue of it if, generally speaking, brass cases these days just tend to run noticeably softer than they used to... regardless of MFG.

Doing my due diligence.

 

[ma96782]

Thank you.
I have some once fired Norma .223 brass. Purchased from the classifieds here at NWFirearms. So, Point taken.

I haven't reloaded any from that batch yet.
Though......I'll be looking for "problems".....if any. And, I will post about it, if I see it.

Mind you that.....I'm NOT saying that the seller was at fault. If.....I should see problems.

Aloha, Mark

 

[po18guy]

I think the situation is concerning enough that contact with Norma would be appropriate.

 

[Going Tits Up]

Obvious evidence of over pressure. Danger Will Robinson!
You change one thing the recipe changes also.
Thicker cases less volume it increases pressure.
Different lot # of your powder. Ball powder is the worst.
Changed headspace on barrel. Or changed to new rifle.
Different lot # of primer.
Crimping when not called for increasing pressure.
I load Norma as do many others, only other brass that comes close is Lapua as far as quality. Nosler is #3 in quality, some say made by Norma but I question that.

 

[Yarome]

Obvious evidence of over pressure. Danger Will Robinson!
You change one thing the recipe changes also.
Thicker cases less volume it increases pressure.

Agreed. That's why I backed the first reloads off a good 5%, but it's already a very conservative paper plinker recipe to begin with. If the brass is showing what I would consider consistent with over pressure marks, too... it concerns me.

They aren't in real bad shape, but close examination is showing light markings that I wouldn't at all expect to see, and have never seen before on any other brass after only 1 reload cycle. Several not holding a primer... well... that doesn't fill me with confidence either.

Supposedly, their cases are specifically designed with reloaders in mind. So they say.....

Come to think of it, maybe they meant it's "softer material" for easier reloading vs. durable for more reload cycles(?)

 

[Certaindeaf]

I had heard Norma was supposed to be really high quality brass for reloading, but I'm having my doubts.

I bought a goodly amount of factory loads and now on the 2nd reloading cycle. What I seem to be noticing though is an inordinate amount of ejector imprints, hard bolt lift and several of them won't hold a primer. Bullets and loads are a long standing plinking recipe for me and quite moderate to conservative. The first reload I backed off about 5% (new component) and planned on working it up this time around, but I dunno now....

I've used the same receipe for years, same rifles, and reloaded a bunch of different brass without nearly the number of issues so quickly. Plinker stuff I go as conservative as I can to keep costs and case stress to a minimum. Gotta squeeze as many reloads out of them as I can.

Has anyone be using their brass and noticed it being exceptionally soft, or.... that's just the nature of the beast these days with "new" brass? I admit it's been a long time since I've brought in new cases, but still.

The majority is perfectly reloadable, but the attrition rate seems exceptionally higher than other brass (including some crap shtuffs) I've reloaded in the past.

Maybe the initial factory loading was hot as heck. Loose pockets is a sure sign of overpressure.

 

[Yarome]

Maybe the initial factory loading was hot as heck. Loose pockets is a sure sign of overpressure.

I hadn't thought of that, but could very well be true. Possibly opened em up enough that it wasn't immediately apparent, but exasperated by the first reloading(?)

Good insight.

 

[po18guy]

Obvious evidence of over pressure. Danger Will Robinson!
You change one thing the recipe changes also.
Thicker cases less volume it increases pressure.
Different lot # of your powder. Ball powder is the worst.
Changed headspace on barrel. Or changed to new rifle.
Different lot # of primer.
Crimping when not called for increasing pressure.
I load Norma as do many others, only other brass that comes close is Lapua as far as quality. Nosler is #3 in quality, some say made by Norma but I question that.

View attachment 1277111

Almost 10% variance in weight/capacity. Loose primers, yes! Over-pressure. Flattened primers, the same. Extruded primers, ejector dents - you nailed it. Loads are not just warm, but hot and too hot.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I hadn't thought of that, but could very well be true. Possibly opened em up enough that it wasn't immediately apparent, but exasperated by the first reloading(?)

Good insight.

A few manufacturers have reputations of loading hot. A lot of manufacturers SAY they do but don't.

 

[po18guy]

So, from here on, best to weigh your brass and load accordingly. That is a guide, but no guarantee, as brass lots are different mixtures, processed differently. Start low, work up.

 

[DizzyJ]

What does your velocity reading say?
Perhaps mild in your other cases is not mild in Norma if they're thicker with less case capacity.

 

[Yarome]

What does your velocity reading say?
Perhaps mild in your other cases is not mild in Norma if they're thicker with less case capacity.

I'll removed the velocity reply. I don't wanna make anyone's head explode.

It's a highly modified rifle shooting at very low pressures so over pressure isn't the issue. I've been doing this more than a minute.

It's possible when I shot the factory loads they might have been too hot and leading to the primer cup issues, but the ejector and bolt marks I can't figure out. The imprints are very light and not particularly alarming, but at the low pressures I'm using, I wouldn't expect to see anything at all.

That's why I was mainly just wondering if anyone had noticed any abnormal issues with norma brass. It just seems to be incredibly soft material is all I can come up with. Maybe that's typical on new brass these days (?). Maybe it's norma specific others have noticed (?) If not, maybe I got a bad lot (?)

What would be most helpful is just someone that's been reloading norma brass to chime in with their 2cents on the cases.

 

[DizzyJ]

I'll removed the velocity reply. I don't wanna make anyone's head explode.

It's a highly modified rifle shooting at very low pressures so over pressure isn't the issue. I've been doing this more than a minute.

It's possible when I shot the factory loads they might have been too hot and leading to the primer cup issues, but the ejector and bolt marks I can't figure out. The imprints are very light and not particularly alarming, but at the low pressures I'm using, I wouldn't expect to see anything at all.

That's why I was mainly just wondering if anyone had noticed any abnormal issues with norma brass. It just seems to be incredibly soft material is all I can come up with. Maybe that's typical on new brass these days (?). Maybe it's norma specific others have noticed (?) If not, maybe I got a bad lot (?)

What would be most helpful is just someone that's been reloading norma brass to chime in with their 2cents on the cases.

I've reloaded it twice but never had the issues you speak of.

 

[Yarome]

Just a follow-up if anyone notices the same.

Norma got back to me. They didn't seem all that suprised and didn't really ask any additional questions or ask for photos or anything. They just said that there can be some variations in the material lots and said they will be sending some replacement brass to match the quantity of my previous order.

I have a tracking number now but hasn't arrived yet.

All in all I would give that an A+ for C.S.

 

[Yarome]

Just another follow-up, but I've had opportunity to cycle a small batch of the new brass through a second reloading. It's night and day. It's actually really nice stuff to reload so I'm chalking it up to a subpar batch on that factory loaded brass and calling it "all good" now.

Per their request I sent back a sampling of the factory cases for them to take a look at so it does seem that they are genuinely interested in their quality controls.